Light ROM 1/LIGHT-ROM 1 (Amiga Library Services)(1994).iso/imagine/text/archive.06

Text File | 1994-10-19 | 202KB | 4,688 lines

IMAGINE archive: collected off of [e-mail]

ARCHIVE VI
May 9 '91 - Jun. 6 '91

If you have questions or problems with this file, email Marvin Landis
at [e-mail]

note: each message seperated by a '##'

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Subject: Imagine to Lightwave
Date: Thu, 9 May 91 14:52:48 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Randy Carris)

For those of you who use both Imagine and Lightwave:

Does Interchange work for converting Imagine objects to Lightwave?  I think
creating objects in Imagine's highly superior modeler and then importing them
into Lightwave is a good solution to the trade-offs of the two programs.
Animation seems to be much easier in Lightwave with more predictable results.
Has anyone done this?  If so, how well did it work?

Randy Carris

##

Subject: Re: Imagine to Lightwave
Date: Thu, 09 May 91 16:22:13 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

>Does Interchange work for converting Imagine objects to Lightwave?  I
>think creating objects in Imagine's highly superior modeler and then
>importing them into Lightwave is a good solution to the trade-offs of
>the two programs.  Animation seems to be much easier in Lightwave
>with more predictable results.  Has anyone done this?  If so, how well
>did it work?

Yes, I have done this and it works fine for most objects. Using the
Turbo Silver 3.0 module you can convert Imagine objects to Sculpt or
Videoscape formats which Lightwave can read. It seems that certain objects
it chokes on however such as the Tron.Tank object posted to ab20. I'm
not sure what causes it but I think it is because it is a compound object
(several objects stored as a single object much like a scene). I'm not
sure if this is the case though. Syndesis (makers of Interchange) has
announced that they are beginning to beta test their new Lightwave module
for conversion to and from Lightwave format directly. If I do any testing
for them, I let ya know whatever I can about its capabilities.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: Strange problem...
Date: Thu, 9 May 91 18:08:41 -0400
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

[e-mail]:
> I am positioning the axis/box of a brush map, interactively.  I get it
> to where I want it (I'm actually scaling...) and hit the space bar.
> Select edit again, and the box is back where it was, as if I had hit
> esc previously...

Yes, this has happened to me exactly once.  The only work-around I
found was with exact positioning via the Attitude (or Edit Axes)
requester.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann       "Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter
 ( )  [e-mail]    with the promise of the brave new world unfurled
                beneath the clear blue sky?" -- Pink Floyd

##

Subject: Positioning brush maps
Date: Thu, 09 May 91 21:09:08 EDT
From: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Kevin Goroway) writes:

>I am positioning the axis/box of a brush map, interactively.
>I get it to where I want it (I'm actually scaling...) and hit the space
>bar.  Select edit again, and the box is back where it was, as if I had
>hit esc previously...
>This happens whether I edit in local or world mode.  Anyone ever see this
>problem? Is there a work around?


You were right to try local mode. This is almost certainly your problem.
Local/world mode often resets itself when you change movement/rotation
axes. Try again, this time being careful to watch the L/W indicators
on the bottom- use the 'L' key freely to set local mode when you're
in doubt.

I'm pretty sure this is your problem- the symptoms are textbook.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: this is a test
Date: Thu, 9 May 91 23:01:14 edt
From: David Tiberio <[e-mail]>

  Hi. This is my first post to the Imagine relay, so please do not read it. :)

  If you didn't get this, please let me know.

  Anyway, why is it that sometimes Imagine doesn't remember my camera
positions from the stage editor? Usually it does, but not always. Does it
have something to do with my camera action?

  Second, it is a pain to rotate the camera. The manual doesn't help much.
I still have 1.0, since my 1.1 archive is bad, and I do not have a coprocessor
yet (but will have one next week). I have a sphere, with the camera positioned
directly above it. When the camera points at down from the FRONT view, the RIGHT
view is slightly off. And when I fix the RIGHT view, the FRONT view changes.
I assume there is a logical reason why it is pointing like that, but I
can't seem to understand the camera too well (I am new to 3d renderings).

David Tiberio
SUNY Stony Brook 2-3481
friend of DDD MEN :)

##

Subject: Detail, Forms, and Object tutorial(s)
Date: Thu, 09 May 91 23:39:20 EDT
From: [e-mail]


Perhaps the smoothest, most wonderful ability of Imagine is it's
ability to make objects. If you've used Lightwave 3D, you might have
smiled in joy at it's stage layout editor. However, you probably
cringed and shuddered if you ever tried to build an object with it's
Modeler From Hell. This is probably the main reason Lightwave comes
with the "Phonebook" of pre-made objects, since making them is not
pleasant at all.

Sculpt 4D? Ahhhhhhhh! [Actually, I haven't used it, but heard it is
horrible.] Turbo Silver? Powerful, yes.  Confusing, certainly! TS has
many of the object creation abilities of Imagine, but twisted into an
evil collection of requesters and gadgets designed to terrify even the
experienced user.

Seriously, Imagine's object editor is one of the best in the entire
computer world- certainly up there with the high-end systems. Its
power is not something you might have remarked apon or even noticed,
but if you start playing with it, you'll soon discover that object
creation is Imagine's strongest ability.

This is the introduction to a three part tutorial on object creation.

The first article will be on the Detail Editor. Hopefully, I'll go
though and describe most of the important functions, give a LUCID
description of pick and select (and why you care), some hints on
getting slice to function, a description of undocumented features like
'taut', and a general overview of getting the tools to work for you.

The second article will be on using the Forms Editor. The Imagine
manual describes how to make an asteroid with this tool, but the Forms
editor is far, far more powerful than this cheesy example implies.
Imagine (!) a dream object creation tool which you give a drawing of a
top, side, and front view of a boat hull. Then this machine churns out
the 3D object that corresponds to those cross sections. Poof! This is
EXACTLY what the Forms editor does, something that the manuals never
make clear. The additional symmetry tools make the Forms editor even
more powerful. I plan to describe how this editor works and go though
a couple examples. I guarantee you'll be impressed!

The third article will be the fun one. Knowing what each tool does
will not make you a sculptor. I will try to talk about object creation
as a whole, and how you can turn your ideas into polygons. :-)
Using both the Forms Editor and the Detail Editor, I'll talk about creation
strategies (how to break down objects), sources for shapes (steal
them!), starting models from scratch, deciding on parts you want to
group, and the overall _process_ of creating as opposed to what a
certain menu selection will do for you. I'll follow a couple of
examples from start to finish, probably an organic shape like a
dolphin and a more static model like a ship. [I'm cheating, because
I've already made these for "Ocean Sunset"!]. This will hopefully tie
things together and give you a good idea how to make models of your
own.

Why am I posting this introduction? I've done a lot of tutorials for
this mailing list already (glass, brush maps, textures, the project
editor and rendering options, and many shorter ones.) Well, these
object creation essays are pretty ambitious, and I want people to
E-mail me personally and tell me what to include and what questions to
answer.  I have outlines for each of the articles, and the Forms
Editor one is even half-written, but if I get some questions and
concerns from you guys I'll know to include some explanation or
discussion on whatever problem and solution you're interested in.

If you have a question or problem on the Forms or Detail editor you
want addressed, just e-mail it to me personally, and I'll try to put
it in.

The articles will probably come out in the next two weeks or so,
quite possibly out of order. :-)

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: IFF24 & raw formats
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 17:53:37 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Something I discovered after writing my own IFF24 read/write routines:
The Sculpt 4D picture format is a RAW format. No header, no compression.
I wanted to have a raw format so I could output to a Kodak dye-sublimation
printer, and ended up writing the conversion in C! The Art Department
will cheerfully read and write the Sculpt files.

Just a note for those people trying to convert and port color pix.

-Steve

PS- The Kodak printer is state-of-the art! Over 2K by 2K resolution at
300 dpi, 32 bit color (extra 8 bits for black overlay). Output is
printed on photographic paper. No halftoning- true shading. $10 per
print, though. Ouch!


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re: Detail, Forms, and Object tutorial(s)
Date: Fri, 10 May 1991 08:01:03 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

[e-mail] writes:

[stuff deleted]

>Seriously, Imagine's object editor is one of the best in the entire
>computer world- certainly up there with the high-end systems. Its

Not a criticism steve, just a clarification. Most (all?) high-end
system object editors are polygon AND spline (often 3 or 4 kinds
of splines) while Imagine is only a polygon editor. With splined
objects being used the majority of the time in high-end 3D systems,
I would have to say that Imagine has an advanced polygon editor (or
the highest of the low end:) but it's certainly not a *highend* editor.

>This is the introduction to a three part tutorial on object creation.
Great work! Look forward to it......

>-Steve

>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------

--stephen
--
Stephen Menzies
Email: [e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: This is a test, or is it?
Date: Fri, 10 May 91 12:36:05 EDT
From: aplcen!jhunix![e-mail] (John J Humpal)

> [e-mail] (David Tiberio) writes:

>   Hi. This is my first post to the Imagine relay, so please do not read it.

     Aren't you glad we ignored this? :-)

>   Anyway, why is it that sometimes Imagine doesn't remember my camera
> positions from the stage editor? Usually it does, but not always. Does it
> have something to do with my camera action?
>
     A poorly documented feature(?): Whenever you change the object to
     which the camera is tracking, you should execute a Right-Amiga-C
     in the Stage Editor to get the camera realigned.

>   Second, it is a pain to rotate the camera. The manual doesn't help much.

     Agreed.  Use a tracking object.  Either the focal object of your
     scene, or better yet, in the Stage Editor add an axis and in the
     Action Editor, delete the camera's alignment bar, then add a new
     one.  When the requester pops up, select Track to Object, and
     enter the axis's name (it will be TRACK if it is the first axis
     you added in Stage).

> I still have 1.0, since my 1.1 archive is bad...

     My 1.1 archive was bad, too, but Impulse got a new disk out to me
     in less than one week.  Great service, I think!

> .... I have a sphere, with the camera positioned
> directly above it. When the camera points at down from the FRONT view,
> the RIGHT
> view is slightly off. And when I fix the RIGHT view, the FRONT view changes.

     Use the Right-Amiga-. ( <--that's a period ) to center the view
     in any of the orthogonal views.  That is, do a R-A-., then click
     in the view at the point you want to be looking at.  Alternatively,
     type Right-Amiga-F to bring up the object requester, select the
     object name you want to see; usually this will center that object
     in all three views.
>
> David Tiberio
> SUNY Stony Brook 2-3481
> friend of DDD MEN :)
>
     Hope this helps, and happy ray-tracing!


John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

##

Subject: Re: Strange problem...
Date: Sat, 11 May 91 11:06:12 PDT
From: [e-mail]

Yes, this is a problem. However, I have only run into the problem when
attempting to scale the axis in a non-uniform manner. In other words,
scaling in the x, but not y or z. It seems to work fine if you scale
in x, y and z all together. The only work around is to "transform"
the axis instead of scaling interactively. If you use transform then
go to "edit axis" you can look at how your numerical changes look.
This is somewhat of a pain because you do have to enter numbers instead
of working interactively. But what I do is before going into the axis
editor I go to Transform Object and look at it's "position" and "size"
then use these numbers to decide how to place the axis.

Good Luck.

=======================================================================
Sean Schur                        USENET: [e-mail]
Assistant Director Amiga/Media Lab        Compuserve: 70731,1102
Character Animation Department            Plink: OSS259
California Institute of the Arts
=======================================================================

##

Subject: Re: Strange problem...
Date: Sat, 11 May 91 18:04:05 EST
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Goroway)

Sean reveals an important point that I left out of my original post...
I am, in fact, only scaling by one axis, and not all of them at the same time.
I am in local mode, definately.  Also, I am using 1.1, which I forgot to m
mention.


I believe his solution (use the numbers) is the only one that exists.  I can't
find another yet...Oh well, yet another bug...

Thanks to all who replied.
-Kevin
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
| Worcester Polytechnic Institute   | "It happens sometimes, people just     |
| [e-mail]                  |   explode, natural causes."-Repo Man   |
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

##

Subject: Re: Strange problem...
Date: Sun, 12 May 91 10:07:25 EDT
From: aplcen!jhunix![e-mail] (John J Humpal)

I can't remember if I've ever scaled anything in only one dimension
before, but I've never run into this problem as long as I'm in Local
mode.  How 'bout interactively scaling in 2-3 dimensions, then scaling
back down to original size in the dimension(s) you didn't want to
change?  It's still a pain, but it's easier than going to the
Transformations requester.

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

##

Subject: Scripting Language For Imagine?
Date: Sun, 12 May 91 10:26:30 PDT
From: [e-mail]

We are all well aware that Imagine isn't AREXX compatible. But I seem
to remember someone mentioning that there was some scripting language
that could be used to control many of the functions of Imagine.

Does anyone remember what this is?

=======================================================================
Sean Schur                        USENET: [e-mail]
Assistant Director Amiga/Media Lab        Compuserve: 70731,1102
Character Animation Department            Plink: OSS259
California Institute of the Arts
=======================================================================

##

Subject: Animated Brush Mapping Doesn't Work
Date: Sun, 12 May 91 11:25:55 PDT
From: [e-mail]

Guess what? There is a feature of Imagine that doesn't work properly!!
(Looks of shock and horror). I know, I know, calm down, maybe we
can all get through this together.

But seriously, let me describe the problem and a work around I found
for part of it.

What I wanted to do was map an animated sequence of images onto a flat
plane that would then morph into a curved surface. Should be simple
enough, huh? Nope. I started doing the renders and the mapped animation
didn't look like it was using every frame, I also got a render error
saying it couldn't find an image (more on this later). So I decided to
do some testing. I made a series of 50 frames that were simply the numbers
1 to 50. This way I would look at each completed render and see what image
exactly it had put on the surface for each frame.

I started with a simple flat surface only, named the images image.0001,
image.0002, image.0003, etc, and put them in a directory together. In the
brush requestor I told it the base name of the images ("image") and told
it that the "max sequence #" was 0050. First problem, it started out using
image 2, not image 1, for frame 1. All the rest of the images were then off
by 1 and when it got to the end it rendered image 50 on frames 49 AND 50.
I thought o.k., that's strange. I tried giving it an image numbered
"image.0000", because they mention it over and over in the manual, but
it ignored this image. When I changed the "max sequence #" to 0049, it
started properly with image 1, but then rendered image 49 on both frames
49 and 50. I did the next logical thing by creating an extra image numbered
image.0051 and put 0051 in the "max sequence #" requestor, but told it
to that the object only existed for 50 frames. This skipped images in the
middle and ended up with image 51 on frame 50.

This brings up one problem, if you give a larger number in the "max
sequence #" requestor than the number of frames that your object exsists
for, then it will randomly skip images in the middle (no matter however
many it takes) to catch up and end with the image numbered in the
"max sequence #" requestor. This is different than if you don't have
as many images created as the number you put in the requestor. If there
aren't enough images there then you get an error then rendering that it
can't find that image number.

Back to the other problem. The only way I could see to get around this
is to put 0049 in the requestor, render the first 49 frames, then change
the requestor to 0050 and render the last frame. A royal pain.

But that's not all folks, there's more royalty to come.

Remember I wanted to morph the object with the moving images on it. Wrong,
can't do it. Imagine will not render animated image maps on morphing
objects. Here's what happened. I made static plane exist for 20 frames
(as the image animation begins playing) then had it morph over the next
30 frames to end up as a curved object on frame 50. It renders the moving
images onto the first 20 frames (as described above). But when it reaches
frame 21 (the first frame of the morph transition) it starts using the
image - "image". Remember that I named the animation images "image.0001",
"image.0002", etc. This means that during a morph transition it ignores
the fact that it is supposed to be using numbered images and just uses
the base name. This happened for the length of the transition and ended
with the last image number at the last frame (where an object existed
in it's entirity again).

Well, that's about it, a tutorial on the problems of using animated images
maps. I hope this saves someone, at least one person the headaches, and
an entire day lost, trying to figure out the problems with this.

Keep on imagining.

=======================================================================
Sean Schur                        USENET: [e-mail]
Assistant Director Amiga/Media Lab        Compuserve: 70731,1102
Character Animation Department            Plink: OSS259
California Institute of the Arts
=======================================================================

##

Subject: Re: Scripting Language For Imagine?
Date:    Sun, 12 May 91 14:33 EDT
From: "Doug Bischoff" <[e-mail]>

      The  language/program in question is "Scripit" which is available on
some fish disk or other.  I have the program and am working on  such a script-
ing language.  If anybody wants to send me some suggestions of what they'd like
to have controllable by scripts, please let me know.

/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
| -Doug  Bischoff- |    *** ***    ====--\         | "I'm not God...  |
| -DEB110 @ PSUVM- |   *  ***  *     ==|<>\___     |    I was just    |
| -The Black Ring- |    *** ***        |______\    |       misquoted!"|
| --- "Wheels" --- |      ***           O   O      |   -Dave Lister   |
| Corwyn Blakwolfe |     T.R.I.     -------------  |    RED DWARF     |
\---- [e-mail]  D.BISCHOFF on GEnie  THIRDMAN on PAN -----/

##

Subject: Re: Strange problem...
Date: Sun, 12 May 91 11:35:10 PDT
From: [e-mail]

>I can't remember if I've ever scaled anything in only one dimension
>before, but I've never run into this problem as long as I'm in Local
>mode.  How 'bout interactively scaling in 2-3 dimensions, then scaling
>back down to original size in the dimension(s) you didn't want to
>change?  It's still a pain, but it's easier than going to the
>Transformations requester.
>
>John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

Sorry, can't do it. If you scale up or down with anything other than all
three dimensions at once then it won't work.

By the way, is anyone keeping track of all these errors so that we can
send them all off to Imagine in a book (probably bigger than the manual).
We can all sign it.

=======================================================================
Sean Schur                        USENET: [e-mail]
Assistant Director Amiga/Media Lab        Compuserve: 70731,1102
Character Animation Department            Plink: OSS259
California Institute of the Arts
=======================================================================

##

Subject: ScripIt
Date: Sun, 12 May 91 14:45:55 edt
From: David Tiberio <[e-mail]>

  If you want to control Imagine via menus, requestors, and the keyboard,
with a pre definged script, look for a program called ScripIt. I have it
somewhere, or I will be able to get it. I found it on an Amiga Resource disk,
either 3,4 ,5, or 6 . Probably volume 6.

David Tiberio
SUNY Stony Brook 2-3481

##

Subject: speed up imagine
Date: Mon, 13 May 91 19:19:02 edt
From: David Tiberio <[e-mail]>

  Did anyone ever notice how much faster Imagine runs when the screen is
dragged to the bottom? Is this also true if it is pushed back, or if it is
not interlaced?

  Also, I have been experimenting with different task priorities. I found
that a priority of 10 sped it up about 50% more. I will continue testing.

David Tiberio

##

Subject: file formats
Date: Mon, 13 May 91 22:17:27 edt
From: David Tiberio <[e-mail]>

  If anyone has file formats, could you please send them to me somehow? I
have the Sclupt 4D format, and am interested in as many as possible to be
included with the printed manuals.

  I am also looking for popular 3d ftp sites (I do have a recent AMiga site
list).

  I am also considering a reference guide for Fred Fish 3d related programs,
and possibly source code for using 3d objects in C.

David Tiberio

##

Subject: Re: file formats
Date: Mon, 13 May 91 19:59:29 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)

I also am looking for 3d object and scene file formats. I am especially looking
for Videoscape (the 1.0) file format. Mainly because this is a simple ASCII
format. I am a beginning programmer (Watch out!). I am concentrating on the
graphic rendering techniques and hope to have an interactive 3d stage editor
that can import objects from a variety of file formats and interactively
place them in 3d space with relatively fast phong shading. Any source would
be appreciated that contains algorithms also.

The algorithms I am currently searching for:
    A-buffering hidden line removal
    Z-   "        "      "     "
    Plane Equation Method
    Gourad Shading algorithm
    RGB to CMYK conversions and CMYK to RGB conversions

Any help, pointers to FTP sites for help, or just general encouragement is
appreciated, welcomed, and hopefully returned someday. Thanks.


Juan Trevino
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: speed up imagine
Date: Tue, 14 May 1991 04:59:46 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

David Tiberio <[e-mail]> writes:

>  Did anyone ever notice how much faster Imagine runs when the screen is
>dragged to the bottom? Is this also true if it is pushed back, or if it is
>not interlaced?

>  Also, I have been experimenting with different task priorities. I found
>that a priority of 10 sped it up about 50% more. I will continue testing.

>David Tiberio

huh? In what sense? You mean an *untouched* machine will render 50% faster
if Imagine's priority is set at 10?

--stephen
--
Stephen Menzies
Email: [e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: file formats
Date: Tue, 14 May 91 11:08:54 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Juan Trevino writes:
> The algorithms I am currently searching for:
>     A-buffering hidden line removal
>     Z-   "        "      "     "
>     Plane Equation Method
>     Gourad Shading algorithm
>     RGB to CMYK conversions and CMYK to RGB conversions

Well I just posted to comp.sys.amiga.graphics describing how a z-buffer
works. In case you missed it, here it is:

>Z-buffering is perhaps the simplest of all hidden surface algorithms but did
>not become popular until the past several years because off its memory cost.
>It invovles dedicating a chunk of memory the size of your frame buffer with
>a depth of at least 16bits (depending on the possible range of Z values).
>The idea is, when scan converting the graphics primitve to color values for
>each pixel, a z-value is also calculated (the distance from the view plane
>to the object surface at that location). This value is compared to the value
>previously stored at that location and if the new value is closer to the
>viewer, then the z-value at that location is updated and the pixel color is
>written to the frame buffer. If not, the calculated z-value is discarded and
>the rasterizer moves on to the next pixel. Ofcourse this requires that the
>Z-buffer be initialized before rasterization begins.  Because the depth of
>the Z-buffer determines the precision to which the comparison can be done,
>the bigger the better. 32bits is not uncommon and some have gone to floating
>point. A typical problem case for a Z-buffer would be runway markings in a
>flight simulator. Although the distance from the viewer to the runway may be
>1 mile, the polygon that describes the runway marking may be only 1/2 inch
>off the ground. This case is beyond the capabilities of a 16bit Z-buffer
>because a measuring system that could resolve 1/2" would overflow 16bits
>with 63000+ inches (1 mile).  The other problem with the Z-buffer is it does
>not handle transparency properly. Consequently, algorithms such as
>Carpenter's A-buffer have been implemented. For further reading on the
>Z-buffer, A-buffer, and other hidden surface techniques, check out "Computer
>Graphics, Principles and Practice" by Foley, van Dam, Feiner, & Hughes.

The A-buffer takes this concept a few steps further by interpolating
primitives down to sub-pixel resolution. Carpenter's paper describes a
method using a 4 x 8 sub-pixel mask but that is up to the implementer. To
summarize, a linked list is maintained for every pixel that is only partialy
covered by a polygon or primative fragment. For each fragment that touches
this pixel, there is an entry containing: color, opacity, area covered, object
tag, coverage mask, Z max and min, and a pointer to the next fragment. Opacity
is 1 - transparency, area covered is a numerical percentage, and the coverage
mask is the 4 x 8 mask defining the actual area covered by the fragment. The
object tag identifies which object this fragment is from so that if several
fragments combined cover the entire pixel, the linked list entry can be
removed IF they are all from the same object. Each time a new fragment is
added to the list, the list is traversed and the color is determined using
a weighted average that takes into account the coverage area and opacity
of the fragment. Clearly, this is a very non-trivial algorithm to implement
efficiently but it does a very respectable job of handling transparency
and antialiasing using z-buffer type techniques. The original paper can be
found in the '84 Siggraph proceedings. Pixar used this technique for one of
their iterations of REYES but later replaced it with stochastic super sampling.

Gouraud shading is a very simple technique commonly implemented in hardware
that interpolates color across a planar polygon based on the colors calculated
at the polygon vertices, as apposed to Phong shading which interpolates the
normal vector. Gouraud is vastly faster because lighting calculations only
have to be performed at polygon vertices where as Phong requires lighting
calculations at every pixel using the interpolated surface normals. Both
smooth out the surface but Phong more accurately handles specular highlights.
The lighting model used for the calculations will also have a dramtic effect
on the speed. When people speak of Phong lighted Gouraud shaded polygons
they mean that Gouraud color interpolation was used, but the vertex light
calculations included a specular component ie:
                                                      N
 I = Ia x Ka + { Ip x Kd x (N * L) + Ip x Ks x (R * V)  } / d
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^specular
Ia: ambient light intensity
Ka: ambient light refectance coefficient
Ip: point light intensity
Kd: diffuse light refectance coefficient
Ks: specular light refectance coefficient
N:  suface normal
L:  light vector
R:  reflection vector
V:  viewer vector
d:  distance attenuation (assumed to be 1 for infinite light sources)
*:  dot product

For RGB <=> CMY

 [ C ]   [ 1 ]   [ R ]            [ R ]   [ 1 ]   [ C ]
 | M | = | 1 | - | G |            | G | = | 1 | - | M |
 [ Y ]   [ 1 ]   [ B ]            [ B ]   [ 1 ]   [ Y ]

then
 K = min(C,M,Y)
 C = C - K
 M = M - K
 Y = Y - K

So ends Graphics 101 :-)
I'm not sure what you mean by the "Plane Equation Method" but plane
equations are described in "Computer Graphics, Principles and Practice"
as are all these algorithms. The task you are undertaking is a rather
large one and you could probably benefit from some code. Here are a few
sources:

Anonymous FTP pub/vogle.tar.Z from gondwana.ecr.mu.oz.au
3D rendering package

sipp 2.0  --  3d rendering package: the SImple
Polygon Processor. SIPP is a library for creating 3-dimensional
scenes and rendering them using a scan-line z-buffer algorithm.
ftp iear.arts.rpi.edu /pub/graphics/sipp-2.0.tar.Z

GraphicsGems code on weedeater.math.yale.edu in /pub directory

Good luck. If you get something running, I would like to see it.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: make imagine faster
Date: Tue, 14 May 91 10:30:40 edt
From: David Tiberio <[e-mail]>

  I have been running Imagine with a task priority of 30. Unfortunately in the
mean time the computer hangs, so every minutes or so you might be able to
actually move the mouse pointer. In order to regain control, you must wait for
Imagine to finish generating.

  Second, by dragging the screen so that only the title bar appears at the
bottom of the screen, you can increase the speed of Imagine, which you will
see happen with your own eyes (this is a bigger improvement that just
changing task priorities).

  I will time the trials to see which is best to use, since I am sure many
of you are shakey about using task priorities and losing multitasking.

  I have found the Turbo Silver, Silver RGB, and Sclupt 4d formats now.

David Tiberio

##

Subject: videoscape, hidden line removal
Date: Tue, 14 May 91 10:19:15 edt
From: David Tiberio <[e-mail]>

  I can get the Videoscape ASCII format. My friend used it for his Clean
Object program, so it must be easy to figure out. :) I can get it on Friday.

  As for hidden line removal, I did it simply by displaying the view with
solid filled polygons, but using the same color as the background. This
'removes' any hidden lines. If you want to be like Imagine and not show
how it works, hide it underneath a window and then copy it to the main
screen when it is done.

  We are looking for an algorythm to divide a polygon into triangles, but
have been finding many cases where it doesn't work.

David Tiberio

##

Subject: Re: file formats
Date: Tue, 14 May 91 11:25:36 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> Ka: ambient light refectance coefficient
> Kd: diffuse light refectance coefficient
> Ks: specular light refectance coefficient
                     ^^^^^
oops, I mean reflectance!

Juan Trevino writes:
> The algorithms I am currently searching for:
>       A-buffering hidden line removal

And note that A-buffering is a antialiased hidden surface removal algorithm,
not line.                                         ^^^^^^^
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: Scripting Language For Imagine?
Date: Tue, 14 May 91 12:30:52 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Matt Feifarek)

I have a request for a script... Make a generic stage file that has the
object in the middle, the camera offset, and a light, with ~60 ambience.
Whenever I test how things look, I (and probably everyone else) use something
like this, and it gets to be a paint to set it all up everytime.  It would be
nice to have a quick alternative for quicker experimentation/testing.

Just an idea!

    MJF

##

Subject: Re: file formats
Date: Tue, 14 May 91 17:22:38 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

GADZOOKS, another mistake!!!
          this is supposed to be a lower case n
                                                ------> N
>  I = Ia x Ka + { Ip x Kd x (N * L) + Ip x Ks x (R * V)  } / d

which designates the specular focusing coefficient which I believe is
directly related to what Imagine refers to as "shininess". The greater n is,
the smaller the specular highlight.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: make imagine faster
Date: Tue, 14 May 91 17:40:47 PDT
From: "Jim Lange" <[e-mail]>

In-Reply-To: WRPYR:[e-mail]'s message of 05-14-91 10:30

David Tiberio writes:
>  Second, by dragging the screen so that only the title bar appears at the
> bottom of the screen, you can increase the speed of Imagine, which you will
> see happen with your own eyes (this is a bigger improvement that just
> changing task priorities).

I would expect this technique to only significantly speed up programs running
in chip ram.  How much chip/fast ram do you have?  Also, what is your system
configuraation in general?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Lange                [e-mail]
Oracle Corporation            {uunet,apple,hplabs}!oracle!jlange
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Turbo Silver RGB format
Date: Tue, 14 May 91 18:54:44 edt
From: David Tiberio <[e-mail]>

  Here is the next format, again downloaded from PLink, but obviously from
the internet (originally).

BOF

>Article 14050 of comp.sys.amiga.tech:
>From: [e-mail] (Helge Egelund Rasmussen)
>Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.tech
>Subject: Turbo silver RGB picture file format
>Keywords: Turbosilver IFF fileformat
>Date: 18 Jul 90 07:47:29 GMT
>Lines: 86
>
>Here is the description of the RGBM AND RGB8 chunks used by
>Turbo Silver.
>
>Helge.
>
>======================================================================
>
>                    FORM RGBN and FORM RGB8
>                    -----------------------
>
>    RGBN and RGB8 files    are used in Impulse's Silver and Turbo Silver.
>    They are almost identical to FORM ILBM's except for the BODY chunk
>    and slight differences in the BMHD chunk.
>
>    A CAMG chunk IS REQUIRED.
>
>    The BMHD chunk specfies the number of bitplanes as 13, and the
>    compressoin type as ??.
>
>    The FORM RGBN uses 12 bit RGB values, and the FORM RGB8 uses
>    24 bit RGB values.
>
>    The BODY chunk contains RGB values, a "genlock" bit, and repeat
>    counts.  In Silver, when "genlock" bit is set, a "zero color" is
>    written into the bitplanes for genlock video to show through.
>    In Diamond (a "paint" program, also by Impulse), the genlock bit
>    is ignored if the file is loaded as a picture (and the RGB color
>    is used instead), and if the file is loaded as a brush the genlock
>    bit marks pixels that are not part of the brush.
>
>    For both RGBN and RGB8 body chunks, each RGB value always has a
>    repeat count.  The values are written in different formats depending
>    on the magnitude of the repeat count.
>
>    For the RGBN BODY chunk:
>
>        For each RGB value, a WORD (16-bits) is written: with the
>        12 RGB bits in the MSB (most significant bit) positions;
>        the "genlock" bit next; and then a 3 bit repeat count.
>        If the repeat count is greater than 7, the 3-bit count is
>        zero, and a BYTE repeat count follows.  If the repeat count
>        is greater than 255, the BYTE count is zero, and a WORD
>        repeat count follows.  Repeat counts greater than 65536 are
>        not supported.
>
>    For the RGB8 body chunk:
>
>        For each RGB value, a LONG-word (32 bits) is written:
>        with the 24 RGB bits in the MSB positions; the "genlock"
>        bit next, and then a 7 bit repeat count.  If the repeat
>        count is greater than 127, the same rules apply as in
>        the RGBN BODY.
>
>    Sample BODY code:
>
>            if(!count) {
>                if (Rgb8) {
>                    fread (&w, 4, 1, RGBFile);
>                    lock = w & 0x00000080;
>                    rgb = w >> 8;
>                    count = w & 0x0000007f;
>                } else {
>                    w = (UWORD) getw (RGBFile);
>                    lock = w & 8;
>                    rgb = w >> 4;
>                    count = w & 7;
>                }
>                if (!count)
>                    if (!(count = (UBYTE) getc (RGBFile)))
>                        count = (UWORD) getw (RGBFile);
>            }
>
>    The pixels are scanned from left to right across horizontal
>    lines, processing from top to bottom.  The (12 or 24 bit) RGB
>    values are stored with the red bits as the MSB's, the green
>    bits next, and the blue bits as the LSB's.
>
>    Special note:  As of this writing (Sep 88), Silver does NOT
>    support anything but black for color zero.
>
>
>---
>Helge E. Rasmussen  .  PHONE + 45 31 37 11 00  .  E-mail:  [e-mail]
>Compel A/S          .  FAX   + 45 31 37 06 44  .
>Copenhagen, Denmark
>
>
>EOF

  I would like to note that the author invites anyone to ask him for further
details.

David Tiberio

##

Subject: file formats
Date: Tue, 14 May 91 18:52:55 edt
From: David Tiberio <[e-mail]>

Here are the Sculpt 4d, Turbo Silver, and Turbo Silver RGB formats. I found
them on PLink.


>Article 14049 of comp.sys.amiga.tech:
>From: [e-mail] (Helge Egelund Rasmussen)
>Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.tech
>Subject: Description of Turbo Silver Object format
>Keywords: Turbo Silver IFF TDDD
>Date: 18 Jul 90 07:44:45 GMT
>Lines: 553
>
>Here is the description of the Turbo Silver TDDD chunk.
>I'll also post the description of the Silver RGB files.
>If you order the 'File formats diskette' (value $5) from Impulse Inc.
>you also get the source for a program to read/write an object file.
>As I'm not sure that the program is Public Domain, I'll not post the program.
>
>Please let me know if you use this info for something interesting...
>
>Helge
>
>======================================================================
>
>                          FORM TDDD
>                          ---------
>
>    FORM TDDD is used by Impulse's Turbo Silver 3.0 for 3D rendering
>    data.  TDDD stands for "3D data description".  The files contain
>    object and (optionally) observer data.
>
>    Currently, in "standard IFF" terms, a FORM TDDD has only two chunk
>    types:  an INFO chunk describing observer data;  and an OBJ chunk
>    describing an object heirarchy.  The INFO chunk appears in "cell"
>    files, and the OBJ chunk appears in "cell" files and "object" files.
>    The FORM has an (optional) INFO chunk followed by some number of
>    OBJ chunks.  (Note:  OBJ is followed by a space -- ckID = "OBJ ")
>
>    The INFO and OBJ chunks, in turn, are made up of smaller chunks with
>    the standard IFF structure:  <ID> <data-size> <data>.
>
>    The INFO "sub-chunks" are relatively straightforward to interpret.
>
>    The OBJ "sub-chunks" support object heirarchies, and are slightly
>    more difficult to interpret.  Currently, there are 3 types of OBJ
>    sub-chunks:  an EXTR chunk, describing an "external" object in a
>    seperate file; a DESC chunk, describing one node of a heirarchy;
>    and a TOBJ chunk marking the end of a heirarchy chain.  For each
>    DESC chunk, there must be a corresponding TOBJ chunk.  And an
>    EXTR chunk is equivalent to a DESC/TOBJ pair.
>
>    In Turbo Silver, the structure of the object heirarchy is as
>    follows.  There is a head object, and its (sexist) brothers.
>    Each brother may have child objects.  The children may have
>    grandchildren, and so on. The brother nodes are kept in a
>    doubly linked list, and each node has a (possibly NULL)
>    pointer to a doubly linked "child" list. The children point
>    to the "grandchildren" lists, and so on.  (In addition, each
>    node has a "back" pointer to its parent).
>
>    Each of the "head" brothers is written in a seperate OBJ chunk,
>    along with all its descendants.  The descendant heirarchy is
>    supported as follows:
>
>        for each node of a doubly linked list,
>
>        1)  A DESC chunk is written, describing its object.
>        2)  If it has children, steps 1) to 3) are performed
>            for each child.
>        3)  A TOBJ chunk is written, marking the end of the children.
>
>    For "external" objects, steps 1) to 3) are not performed, but
>    an EXTR chunk is written instead.  (This means that an external
>    object cannot have children unless they are stored in the same
>    "external" file).
>
>    The TOBJ sub-chunks have zero size -- and no data.  The DESC
>    and EXTR sub-chunks are made up of "sub-sub-chunks", again,
>    with the standard IFF structure:  <ID> <data-size> <data>.
>
>    Reader software WILL FOLLOW the standard IFF procedure of
>    skipping over any un-recognized chunks -- and "sub-chunks"
>    or "sub-sub-chunks". The <data-size> field indicates how many
>    bytes to skip.  In addition it WILL OBSERVE the IFF rule that
>    an odd <data-size> may appear, in which case the corredponding
>    <data> field will be padded at the end with one extra byte to
>    give it an even size.
>
>
>    Now, on with the details.
>
>    First, there are several numerical fields appearing in the data,
>    describing object positions, rotation angles, scaling factors, etc.
>    They are stored as "32-bit fractional" numbers, such that the true
>    number is the 32-bit number divided by 65536.  So as an example,
>    the number 3.14159 is stored as (hexadecimal) $0003243F.  This
>    allows the data to be independant of any particular floating point
>    format. And it (actually) is the internal format used in the
>    "integer" version of Turbo Silver.  Numbers stored in this format
>    are called as "FRACT"s below.
>
>    Second, there are several color (or RGB) fields in the data.
>    They are always stored as three UBYTEs representing the red,
>    green and blue components of the color.  Red is always first,
>    followed by green, and then blue.  For some of the data chunks,
>    Turbo Silver reads the color field into the 24 LSB's of a
>    LONGword.  In such cases, the 3 RGB bytes are preceded by a
>    zero byte in the file.
>
>
>    The following "typedef"s are used below:
>
>    typedef LONG    FRACT;          /* 4 bytes */
>    typedef UBYTE   COLOR[3];       /* 3 bytes */
>
>    typedef struct  vectors {
>        FRACT   X;                  /* 4 bytes */
>        FRACT   Y;                  /* 4 bytes */
>        FRACT   Z;                  /* 4 bytes */
>    } VECTOR;                   /* 12 bytes total */
>
>    typedef struct  matrices {
>        VECTOR  I;                  /* 12 bytes */
>        VECTOR  J;                  /* 12 bytes */
>        VECTOR  K;                  /* 12 bytes */
>    } MATRIX;                   /* 36 bytes total */
>
>
>    The following structure is used in generating animated cells
>    from a single cell.  It can be attached to an object or to the
>    camera.  It is also used for Turbo Silver's "extrude along a
>    path" feature.
>
>    typedef struct  story   {
>        UBYTE   Path[18];           /*  18 bytes        */
>        VECTOR  Translate;          /*  12 bytes        */
>        VECTOR  Rotate;             /*  12 bytes        */
>        VECTOR  Scale;              /*  12 bytes        */
>        UWORD   info;               /*   2 bytes        */
>    } STORY;                    /*  56 bytes total  */
>
>    The Path[] name refers to a named object in the cell data.
>    The path object should be a sequence of points connected
>    with edges.  The object moves from the first point of the
>    first edge, to the last point of the last edge.  The edge
>    ordering is important.  The path is interpolated so that
>    the object always moves an equal distance in each frame of
>    the animation.  If there is no path the Path[] field should
>    be set to zeros.
>    The Translate vector is not currently used.
>    The Rotate "vector" specifies rotation angles about the
>    X, Y, and Z axes.
>    The Scale vector specfies X,Y, and Z scale factors.
>    The "info" word is a bunch of bit flags:
>
>        ABS_TRA     0x0001      - translate in world coorinates (not used)
>        ABS_ROT     0x0002      - rotation in world coorinates
>        ABS_SCL     0x0004      - scaling in world coorinates
>        LOC_TRA     0x0010      - translate in local coorinates (not used)
>        LOC_ROT     0x0020      - rotation in local coorinates
>        LOC_SCL     0x0040      - scaling in local coorinates
>        X_ALIGN     0x0100      - (not used)
>        Y_ALIGN     0x0200      - align Y axis to path's direction
>        Z_ALIGN     0x0400      - (not used)
>        FOLLOW_ME   0x1000      - children follow parent on path
>
>
>    INFO sub-chunks
>    ---------------
>
>    BRSH - size 82
>
>        WORD    Number;                 ; Brush number (between 0 and 7)
>        CHAR    Filename[80];           ; IFF ILBM filename
>
>        There may be more than one of these.
>
>    STNC - size 82
>
>        Same format as BRSH chunk.
>
>    TXTR - size 82
>
>        Same format as BRSH chunk.  The Filename field is the name of
>        a code module that can be loaded with LoadSeg().
>
>    OBSV - size 28
>
>        VECTOR  Camera;                 ; Camera position
>        VECTOR  Rotate;                 ; Camera rotation angles
>        FRACT   Focal;                  ; Camera focal length
>
>        This tells where the camera is, how it is aimed, and its
>        focal length.  The rotation angles are in degrees, and specify
>        rotations around the X, Y, and Z axes.  The camera looks down
>        its own Y axis, with the top of the picture in the direction of
>        the Z axis.  If the rotation angles are all zero, its axes
>        are aligned with the world coordinate axes.  The rotations are
>        performed in the order ZXY about the camera axes.  A positive
>        angle rotates Y toward Z, Z toward X, and X toward Y for
>        rotations about the X, Y, and Z axes respectively.  To
>        understand the focal length, imagine a 320 x 200 pixel
>        rectangle perpendicular to, and centered on the camera's
>        Y axis.  Any objects in the infinite rectangular cone defined
>        by the camera position and the 4 corners of the rectangle will
>        appear in the picture.
>
>    OTRK - size 18
>
>        BYTE    Trackname[18];
>
>        This chunk specifies the name of an object that the camera
>        is "tracked" to.  If the name is NULL, the camera doesn't
>        track.  Otherwise, if the object is moved inside Turbo Silver,
>        the camera will follow it.
>
>    OSTR - size 56
>
>        STORY   CStory;         ; a STORY structure for the camera
>
>        The story structure is defined above.
>
>    FADE - size 12
>
>        FRACT   FadeAt;         ; distance to start fade
>        FRACT   FadeBy;         ; distance of total fade
>        BYTE    pad;            ; pad byte - must be zero
>        COLOR   FadeTo;         ; RGB color to fade to
>
>    SKYC - size 8
>
>        BYTE    pad;            ; pad byte - must be zero
>        COLOR   Horizon;        ; horizon color
>        BYTE    pad;            ; pad byte - must be zero
>        COLOR   Zenith;         ; zenith color
>
>    AMBI - size 4
>
>        BYTE    pad;            ; pad byte - must be zero
>        COLOR   Ambient;        ; abmient light color
>
>    GLB0 - size 8
>
>        BYTE    Props[8];       ; an array of 8 "global properties" used
>                                ; by Turbo Silver.
>
>        Props[0] - GLB_EDGING       ; edge level (globals requester)
>        Props[1] - GLB_PERTURB      ; perturbance (globals requester)
>        Props[2] - GLB_SKY_BLEND    ; sky blending factor (0-255)
>        Props[3] - GLB_LENS         ; lens type (see below)
>        Props[4] - GLB_FADE         ; flag - Sharp/Fuzzy focus (globals)
>        Props[5] - GLB_SIZE         ; "apparant size" (see below)
>        Props[6] - GLB_RESOLVE      ; resolve depth (globals requester)
>        Props[7] - GLB_EXTRA        ; flag - genlock sky on/off
>
>        The edging and perturbance values control the heuristics in
>        ray tracing.  The sky blending factor is zero for no blending,
>        and 255 for full blending.  The lens type is a number from 0
>        4, corresponding to the boxes in the "camera" requester, and
>        correspond to 0) Manual, 1) Wide angle, 2) Normal, 3) Telephoto,
>        and 4) Custom.  It is used in setting the camera's focal length
>        if the camera is tracked to an object.  The Sharp/Fuzzy flag
>        turns the "fade" feature on and off - non-zero means on.
>        The "apparant size" parameter is 100 times the "custom size"
>        parameter in the camera requester.  And is used to set the
>        focal length for a custom lens.  The "resolve depth" controls
>        the number of rays the ray tracer will shoot for a single pixel.
>        Each reflective/refractive ray increments the depth counter, and
>        the count is never allowed to reach the "resolve depth".  If both
>        a reflective and a refractive ray are traced, each ray gets its
>        own version of the count - so theoretically, a resolve depth of
>        4 could allow much more than 4 rays to be traced.  The "genlock
>        sky" flag controls whether the sky will be colored, or set to
>        the genlock color (color 0 - black) in the final picture.
>
>
>    All of the INFO sub-chunks are optional, as is the INFO chunk.
>    Default values are supplied if the chunks are not present.  The
>    defaults are:  no brushes, stencils, or textures defined; no story
>    for the camera; horizon and zenith and ambient light colors set
>    to black; fade color set to (80,80,80);  un-rotated, un-tracked
>    camera at (-100, -100, 100); and global properties array set to
>    [30, 0, 0, 0, 0, 100, 8, 0].
>
>
>    DESC sub-sub-chunks
>    -------------------
>
>    NAME - size 18
>
>        BYTE    Name[18];       ; a name for the object.
>
>        Used for camera tracking, specifying story paths, etc.
>
>    SHAP - size 4
>
>        WORD    Shape;          ; number indicating object type
>        WORD    Lamp;           ; number indicating lamp type
>
>        Lamp numbers are:
>
>            0 - not a lamp
>            1 - like sunlight
>            2 - like a lamp - intensity falls off with distance.
>
>        Shape numbers are:
>
>            0 - Sphere
>            1 - Stencil
>            2 - Axis            ; custom objects with points/triangles
>            3 - Facets          ; illegal - for internal use only
>            4 - Surface
>            5 - Ground
>
>        Spheres have thier radius set by the X size parameter.
>        Stencils and surfaces are plane-parallelograms, with one
>        point at the object's position vector; one side lying along
>        the object's X axis with a length set by the X size; and
>        another side starting from the position vector and going
>        "Y size" units in the Y direction and "Z size" units in
>        the X direction.  A ground object is an infinte plane
>        perpendicular to the world Z axis.  Its Z coordinate sets
>        its height, and the X and Y coordinates are only relevant
>        to the position of the "hot point" used in selecting the
>        object in the editor.  Custom objects have points, edges
>        and triangles associated with them.  The size fields are
>        relevant only for drawing the object axes in the editor.
>        Shape number 3 is used internally for triangles of custom
>        objects, and should never appear in a data file.
>
>    POSI - size 12
>
>        VECTOR  Position;       ; the object's position.
>
>        Legal coordinates are in the range -32768 to 32767 and 65535/65536.
>        Currently, the ray-tracer only sees objects in the -1024 to 1024
>        range.  Light sources, and the camera may be placed outside that
>        range, however.
>
>    AXIS - size 36
>
>        VECTOR  XAxis;
>        VECTOR  YAxis;
>        VECTOR  ZAxis;
>
>        These are direction vectors for the object coordinate system.
>        They must be "orthogonal unit vectors" - i.e. the sum of the
>        squares of the vevtor components must equal one (or close to it),
>        and the vectors must be perpendicular.
>
>    SIZE - size 12
>
>        VECTOR  Size;
>
>        See SHAP chunk above.  The sizes are used in a variety of ways
>        depending on the object shape.  For custom objects, they are
>        the lengths of the coordinate axes drawn in the editor.  If the
>        object has its "Quickdraw" flag set, the axes lengths are also
>        used to set the size of a rectangular solid that is drawn rather
>        than drawing all the points and edges.
>
>    PNTS - size 2 + 12 * point count
>
>        UWORD   PCount;         ; point count
>        VECTOR  Points[];       ; points
>
>        This chunk has all the points for custom objects.  The are
>        refered to by thier position in the array.
>
>    EDGE - size 4 + 4 * edge cout
>
>        UWORD   ECount;         ; edge count
>        UWORD   Edges[][2];     ; edges
>
>        This chunk contins the edge list for custom objects.
>        The Edges[][2] array is pairs of point numbers that
>        are connected by the edges.  Edges are refered to by thier
>        position in the Edges[] array.
>
>    FACE - size 2 + 6 * face count
>
>        UWORD   TCount;         ; face count
>        UWORD   Connects[][3];  ; faces
>
>        This chunk contains the triangle (face) list for custom objects.
>        The Connects[][3] array is triples of edge numbers that are
>        connected by triangles.
>
>    COLR - size 4
>    REFL - size 4
>    TRAN - size 4
>
>        BYTE    pad;        ; pad byte - must be zero
>        COLOR   col;        ; RGB color
>
>        These are the main object RGB color, and reflection and
>        transmission coefficients.
>
>    CLST - size 2 + 3 * count
>    RLST - size 2 + 3 * count
>    TLST - size 2 + 3 * count
>
>        UWORD   count;      ; count of colors
>        COLOR   colors[];   ; colors
>
>        These are the main object color, and reflection and
>        transmission coefficients for each face in custom objects.
>        The count should match the face count in the FACE chunk.
>        The ordering corresponds to the face order.
>
>    TPAR - size 64
>
>        FRACT   Params[16];     ; texture parameters
>
>        This is the list of parameters for texture modules when
>        texture mapping is used.
>
>    SURF - size 5
>
>        BYTE    SProps[5];      ; object properties
>
>        This chunk contains object (surface) properties used
>        by Turbo Silver.
>
>        SProps[0] - PRP_SURFACE     ; surface type
>                                    ;   0 - normal
>                                    ;   4 - genlock
>                                    ;   5 - IFF brush
>        SProps[1] - PRP_BRUSH       ; brush number (if IFF mapped)
>        SProps[2] - PRP_WRAP            ; IFF brush wrapping type
>                                    ;   0 - no wrapping
>                                    ;   1 - wrap X
>                                    ;   2 - wrap Z
>                                    ;   3 - wrap X and Z
>        SProps[3] - PRP_STENCIL     ; stencil number for stencil objects
>        SProps[4] - PRP_TEXTURE     ; texture number if texture mapped
>
>    MTTR - size 2
>
>        UBYTE   Type;               ; refraction type (0-4)
>        UBYTE   Index;              ; custom index of refraction
>
>        This chunk contains refraction data for transparent or
>        glossy objects.  If the refraction type is 4, the object
>        has a "custom" refractive index stored in the Index field.
>        The Index field is 100 * (true index of refraction - 1.00)
>        -- so it must be in the range of 1.00 to 3.55.  The
>        refraction types is 0-3 specify 0) Air - 1.00, 1) Water - 1.33,
>        2) Glass - 1.67 or 3) Crystal 2.00.
>
>    SPEC - size 2
>
>        UBYTE   Specularity;            ; range of 0-255
>        UBYTE   Hardness;               ; specular exponent (0-31)
>
>        This chunk contains specular information.  The Specularity
>        field is the amount of specular reflection -- 0 is none,
>        255 is fully specular.  The "specular exponent" controls
>        the "tightness" of the specular spots.  A value of zero
>        gives broad specular spots and a value of 31 gives smaller
>        spots.
>
>    PRP0 - size 6
>
>        UBYTE   Props[6];           ; more object properties
>
>        This chunk contains object properties that programs other
>        than Turbo Silver might support.
>
>        Props[0] - PRP_BLEND        ; blending factor (0-255)
>        Props[1] - PRP_SMOOTH       ; roughness factor
>        Props[2] - PRP_SHADE        ; shading on/off flag
>        Props[3] - PRP_PHONG        ; phong shading on/off flag
>        Props[4] - PRP_GLOSSY       ; glossy on/off flag
>        Props[5] - PRP_QUICK        ; Quickdraw on/off flag
>
>        The blending factor controls the amount of dithering used
>        on the object - 255 is fully dithered.
>        The roughness factor controls how rough the object should
>        appear - 0 is smooth, 255 is max roughness.
>        The shading flag is interpreted differently depending on
>        whether the object is a light source or not.  For light
>        sources, it sets the light to cast shadows or not.  For
>        normal objects, if the flag is set, the object is always
>        considered as fully lit - i.e. it's color is read directly
>        from the object (or IFF brush), and is not affected by light
>        sources.
>        The phong shading is on by default - a non-zero value turns
>        it off.
>        The glossy flag sets the object to be glossy or not.  If
>        the object is glossy, the "transmit" colors and the index
>        of refraction control the amount of "sheen".  The glossy
>        feature is meant to simulate something like a wax coating
>        on the object with the specified index of refraction. The
>        trasmission coefficients control how much light from the
>        object makes it through the wax coating.
>        The Quickdraw flag, if set, tells the editor not to draw
>        all the points and edges for the object, but to draw a
>        rectanglular solid centered at the object position, and
>        with sizes detemined by the axis lengths.
>
>    INTS - size 4
>
>        FRACT   Intensity;          ; light intensity
>
>        This is the intensity field for light source objects.
>        an intensity of 255 for a sun-like light fully lights
>        object surfaces which are perpendicular to the direction
>        to the light source.  For lamp-like light sources, the
>        necessary intensity will depend on the distance to the light.
>
>    STRY - size 56
>
>        STORY   story;          ; a story structure for the object.
>
>        The story structure is described above.
>
>
>    Again, most of these fields are optional, and defaults are supplied.
>    However, if there is a FACE chunk, there must also be a CLST chunk,
>    an RLST chunk and a TLST chunk -- all with matching "count" fields.
>    The SHAP chunk is not optional.
>
>    Defaults are:  Colors set to (240,240,240); reflection and
>    transmission coefficients set to zero; illegal shape; no story or
>    special surface types; position at (0,0,0); axes aligned to the
>    world axes; size fields all 32.0; intensity at 300; no name;
>    no points/edges or faces; texture parameters set to zero; refraction
>    type 0 with index 1.00; specular, hardness and roughness set to zero;
>    blending at 255; glossy off; phong shading on; not a light source;
>    not brightly lit;
>
>
>
>    EXTR sub-sub-chunks
>    -------------------
>
>    MTRX - size 60
>
>        VECTOR  Translate;          ; translation vector
>        VECTOR  Scale;              ; X,Y and Z scaling factors
>        MATRIX  Rotate;             ; rotation matrix
>
>        The translation vector is i world coordinates.
>        The scaling factors are with respect to local axes.
>        The rotation matrix is with respect to the world axes,
>        and it should be a "unit matrix".
>        The rotation is such that a rotated axis's X,Y, and Z
>        components are the dot products of the MATRIX's I,J,
>        and K vectors with the un-rotated axis vector.
>
>    LOAD - size 80
>
>        BYTE    Filename[80];       ; the name of the external file
>
>        This chunk contains the name of an external object file.
>        The external file should be a FORM TDDD file.  It may contain
>        an any number of objects possibly grouped into heirarchy(ies).
>
>    Both of these chunks are required.
>
>-----
>Helge E. Rasmussen  .  PHONE + 45 31 37 11 00  .  E-mail:  [e-mail]
>Compel A/S          .  FAX   + 45 31 37 06 44  .
>Copenhagen, Denmark
>
>
>
>
>EOF


  For convenience, I am including the other files separately.
            David Tiberio

##

Subject: Sculpt 4D format
Date: Tue, 14 May 91 18:57:48 edt
From: David Tiberio <[e-mail]>

  Here is the Sculpt 4D format, which is the last one for now. Again, this
was from PLink and passed to me by my friend who subscribes to PLink. I do
not know the original origins of this file.

BOF

>   APPENDIX C
>SCULPT ANIMATE FILE FORMATS
>The files generated by Sculpt Animate follow the IFF standard, with
>the exception of the RGB files described in chapter 3.    The .i.IFF.i.
>format is described in the Amiga ROM Kernel Manual, and sample
>programs to read and write such files may be found i
>
>The file formats used by the Sculpt series of programs for the Amiga
>are constantly changing, through the addition of new chunk types and
>the definition of reserved 'padding' bytes in existing chunks.  In
>most cases this will not present problems either
>
>Image files
>Images are written as .i.ILBM; IFF files and need little further
>explanation here, since they conform to the published standards.
>Because of the variety of image size and mode that Sculpt Animate
>uses, programs which intend to use these images shouldn'
>
>Images saved in conjunction with frame buffer usage are non-standard,
>but follow the ILBM format.  These images have no CMAP chunk, so the
>bit planes represent actual 24-bit color intensity values:  8 planes
>each of red, green, and blue--stored in that
>
>Scene files
>Scene files contain a number of data chunks.  Each chunk is described
>below in terms of a C structure.  The comments beside each structure
>member should make its meaning clear.  The FORM name for a scene file
>is 'SC3D'.
>
>/*    Chunk 'LAMP' contains one or more of the following structures,
>    the number of structures is determined by the length of the chunk
>*/
>
>struct    elamp
>      {  long int pos[3];        /* The position of the lamp         */
>     long int brightness;        /* The brightness of the lamp        */
>     unsigned char color[3];    /* The color of the lamp as a triple
>                       of RGB values, range 0 to 255        */
>     char pad;            /* Unused                    */
>      };
>
>
>
>/*    Chunk 'OBSV' contains a specification of an observer according
>    to the following structure
>*/
>
>struct observer
>    {long int obsmode;        /* Rendering mode as follows
>                      0  Painting
>                      1  Snapshot
>                      2  Photo
>                      3  Wireframe
>                      4  Sketch
>                      5  Scanline painting
>                      6  Scanline snapshot            */
>     long int fl;            /* Focal length of lens in millimeters  */
>     long int althresh;        /* For internal use only            */
>     long int threshhold;        /* For internal use only            */
>     long int robspos[3];        /* Position of observer            */
>     long int rtarget[3];        /* Position of target            */
>     short int hires;        /* 0 for low
>                       1 for high resolution            */
>     short int lace;        /* 0 for non-interlace
>                       1 for interlace                */
>     short int lens;        /* Lens type as follows:
>                        0  Normal 50mm
>                        1  Wide angle 28mm
>                        2  Telephoto 135mm
>                        3  Special, as given by spfl    */
>     short int manexpflg;        /* 0 for auto exposure
>                       else manual                */
>     long int spfl;         /* Focal length of special lens        */
>     long int expoverride;        /* Current value for exposure override  */
>     long int manexpval;        /* Value when in manual mode        */
>     long int picsize;        /* Image size as follows
>                    0  Tiny
>                    1  Small
>                    2  Medium
>                    3  Full
>                    4  Jumbo
>                    5  Video                */
>     long int tilt;         /* Tilt angle                */
>     long int aamode;        /* Anti aliasing mode as follows:
>                    0  None
>                    1  Good
>                    2  Best                 */
>     short int dithatten;        /* Dithering attenuation as follows:
>                    0   Standard
>                    50  Half standard, etc
>                    100 None                */
>     short int colorlock;        /* Non zero for locking colors        */
>     short int explock;        /* Non zero for locking exposure value  */
>     short int expexp;        /* Internal use only            */
>     long int expmant;        /* Internal use only            */
>     unsigned char wfcol1[4],wfcol2[4];
>                    /* Colors for wire frame images        */
>     short int displayearly;
>                    /* Non zero to request early display
>                       of rendered image */
>     short int dummy[29];        /* Reserved for future use, should be set
>                       to zero.                 */
>    };
>
>/*    Chunk 'WRLD' contains a specification of the world using the
>    following structure
>*/
>
>struct world
>    {long int groundmode;        /* 0 None, 1 solid, 2 checkered */
>     long int skymode;        /* 0 None, 1 solid, 2 graduated */
>     long int checkscale;        /* Size of checkered ground */
>     unsigned char backbright[3];
>                    /* Intensity of background illumination
>                       as RGB values on a scale of 0 to 255 */
>     unsigned char grcol1[3],grcol2[3];
>                    /* Colors of ground squares as RGB
>                       values on a scale of 0 to 255        */
>     unsigned char skycol1[3],skycol2[3];
>                   /* Sky colors as RGB values on
>                      a scale of 0 to 255            */
>     long int dummy[20];       /* Reserved for future use, should be set
>                      to zero                    */
>    };
>
>
>/*    Chunk 'VERT' contains an array of the following structure, one
>    element for each vertex to be included in the scene
>*/
>
>struct evertex
>    {long int pos[3];       /* Position of vertex            */
>    };
>
>
>/*    Chunk 'EDGE' contains an array of the following structure, one
>    element for each edge in the scene
>*/
>
>
>struct eedge
>    {long int evertexi[2];      /* Indices denoting vertices in VERT chunk */
>    };
>
>
>/*    Chunk 'FACE' cantains an array of the following structures, one
>    element for each face in the scene
>*/
>
> struct eface
>    {long int evertexi[3];     /* Indices denoting vertices in VERT chunk */
>     unsigned char color[3];
>                 /* Face color as RGB values in the range
>                    0 to 255                    */
>     unsigned char texture;  /* The most significant bit is set
>                   if smoothing is needed.  The remaining
>                   bits represent a texture value as follows:
>                    0  Dull
>                    1  Shiny
>                    2  Mirror
>                    3  Luminous
>                    4  Glass
>                    5  Metal
>                    6  Glass2                */
>    };
>
>
>/*    The chunk 'HIER' contains an array of the following structures,
>    one element for each name in the hierarchy
>*/
>
>struct ehier
>    {short int parindex;    /* index to the hierarchy element
>                   that is the parent of this element        */
>     char name[10];     /* Name of hierarchy element            */
>     short int type;    /* Type of element, as follows:
>                    0  Empty
>                    2  Lamp
>                    4  Path
>                    6  Target
>                    8  Observer location
>                       10  Vertices
>                      Bit 0x10 is set if a local origin is
>                      used by this element            */
>     short int loverti;    /* index to the vertex that is the local
>                   of this element                */
>     long int lo[3];    /* Local origin position            */
>    };
>
>
>/*    Chunk 'VNAM' contains an array of the following structure, one
>    element for each vertex that has a hierarchy name
>*/
>
>
>struct ename
>    {short int object;    /* index to vertex                */
>     short int name;    /* index to hierarchy name            */
>    };
>
>/*    The chunk 'LNAM' contains an array of short integer values
>    representing the hierarchy indices for each lamp.  Unnamed
>    lamps are given an index of -1.
>*/
>
>/*    The chunk 'PATH' contains an array of the following structure,
>    one element for each vertex that is a part of a path.
>*/
>
>struct epath
>    {int evertexi;        /* Index to vertex                */
>     long int etumbleaxes[3][3];
>                /* Tumble axis directions, scaled by a
>                   factor of 1L<<30                */
>     int terminator;
>                /* Code value with bits set as follows:
>                       1  end of path
>                       2  end of loop
>                       4  interpolated                */
>    };
>
>
>/*    The chunk 'KNOT' contains an array of the following structure,
>    one element for each knot vertex included in the scene
>*/
>
>
>struct eknot
>    {long int eslopes[2][3];
>                /* Knot slopes scaled by 1L<<30         */
>     long int espeeds[2];
>                /* Speed values scaled by 1L<<30        */
>     short int evertexi;
>                /* index to vertex                */
>     short int terminator;
>                /* Code value with bits set as follows:
>                       1  end of spline
>                       2  end of loop
>                       4  interpolated
>                       8  cusp                    */
>    };
>
>/*    The chunk 'SPLN' contains an array of the following structure,
>    one element for each non-knot spline vertex
>*/
>
>struct espline
>    {short int evertexi;
>                /*  Index to vertex                */
>     short int evertknoti;
>                /*  Index to knot                */
>    };
>
>/*    The chunk 'CSGE' contains a CSG object type identifier,
>   and a long array of indices to vertices of the object
>*/
>
>struct ecsg
>    {short int type;    /* set as follows:
>                   0 sphere                    */
>     long int evertexi[12];
>                /*  Indices to vertices in CSG sphere        */
>    };
>
>Take files
>A take is automatically saved to disk at frequent intervals as a file whose
>name ends with '.take'.  It is an IFF file with a form name called 'TAKE'
>containing the following chunks.
>
>/*    Chunk 'THDR' contains the following structure:
>*/
>
>struct take
>    {int frmode;        /* set to 1 for frame mode            */
>     int rammode;        /* set as follows:
>                     0 not RAM animation
>                     1 normal RAM animation
>                     2 economy RAM animation
>                     3 ANIM-5 RAM animation            */
>     int numframes;     /* number of frames in the take         */
>     int curframe;        /* current frame number             */
>     int saveimages;    /* set to 1 if frames are to be saved to disk*/
>     int prevsize;        /* preview size as follows:
>                     2    Medium
>                     3 Full                    */
>     int motionblur;
>                /* set for motion blur                */
>     int loopmode;        /* set as follows:
>                     0    no loop
>                     1    loop
>                     2    oscillation                */
>     int framebuffer;    /* set if frame buffer is in use        */
>     int framecontroller;    /* set if frame controller is in use        */
>     char anidrawer[22];    /* animation drawer name            */
>     char foreground[22];    /* foreground file name             */
>     char background[22];    /* background file name             */
>     char pad1[22];     /* unused, should be set to zero        */
>     char fcname[22];    /* frame controller name            */
>     char pad2[22];     /* unused, should be set to zero        */
>     char fbname[22];    /* frame buffer name                */
>     short int colorlock    /* set when colors are locked            */
>     char creg[96];     /* current color registers            */
>     short int explock;    /* set when exposure values are locked        */
>     short int expexp;    /* internal use only                */
>     long int expmant;    /* internal use only                */
>     short int obsmode;    /* Rendering mode as follows
>                    0  Painting
>                    1  Snapshot
>                    2  Photo
>                    3  Wireframe
>                    4  Sketch
>                    5  Scanline painting
>                    6  Scanline snapshot            */
>     short int hires;    /* 0 for low and 1 for high resolution        */
>     short int lace;    /* 0 for non-interlace 1 for interlace        */
>     short int picsize;    /* Image size as follows
>                    0  Tiny
>                    1  Small
>                    2  Medium
>                    3  Full
>                    4  Jumbo
>                    5  Video                    */
>     short int bitplanes    /* number of bit planes             */
>     unsigned char wfcol1[4],wfcol2[4];
>                /* colors for wire frame rendering        */
>     char padding[64];    /* unused, should be set to zero        */
>    };
>
>
>/*    The remaining chunks are of type 'TFRM', one for each frame in
>    the take.  Each chunk contains the following structure
>*/
>
>struct etakeframe
>    {short int framenum;    /* Frame number                 */
>     short int keyframe;    /* Set to 1 if it is a keyframe         */
>     short int duration;    /* Duration, in jiffies             */
>     char imadrawer[22];    /* image drawer name                */
>     char scedrawer[22];    /* scene drawer name                */
>     char padding[64];    /* unused, should be set to zero        */
>    };
>
>
>EOF


    If anyone has any more file formats, please upload them to the relay.
I would particularly be interested. Thanks.

David Tiberio

##

Subject: Help for I am screwed - Imagine upgrade
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 11:05:16 JST
From: kddlab!nanko.digital.co.jp![e-mail] (Manjit Bedi)

Hi guys, you might remeber my query a while ago about the Imagine
upgrade.  Apparently, international prepaid postage does not exist
in Japan so I cannot do the software upgrade with the SASE approach.
If I am wrong I do not know; I do not speak enough Japanese to investigate
these things over here.  And trying to do things like this in Japan are
so complicated and convuluted ( sp? ) here.

Do I have any options with getting the upgrade to Imagine 1.1?
This really frustrates me.  I could send my diskette back home to Canada
and get my brother to mail it in but I am really loathe to mail a stupid
diskette all over the place.  Will Impulse accept a money order for the
postage to send me the upgrade?  Would they bill me if I just send them a
disk?

If someone could reply be E-Mail since I have lost the feed to the list
for some reason ( I am sure nothing is wrong on Steve Worley's end -
the mail system in Japan is not so reliable in my experience).

And if possible I would like to know if there has been any further upgrades
announced or anything else I should know as a registered but to this day
unacknowledged owner of Imagine v1.0.  I have not seen anything from the
list in about a month I think.

Thanks I appreciate it in advance.

Manjit ( deep heavy sigh)

##

Subject: make Imagine faster
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 05:18 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Scott Busse)

David, along with your time trials for speeding up Imagine, could you also
include specifics about what Amiga model and accessories you're using, please.
Is it an accelerated ('020 or '030) machine? Do you use an overscan workbench?
Are you running OS1.3 or 2.0? We must be scientific about this! :) Thanks!
--
* Scott Busse email:           O    O   O_     _      ___ .....
* CIS 73040,2114              |||  /|\  /\   O/\_     /         O    )=|
* [e-mail]    l   | |   |\    / \   /\                _\
* [e-mail]                  Live Long and Animate... \

##

Subject: Re: Scripting Language For Imagine?
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 10:36:45 PDT
From: "Mark W. Davis  206.865.8749" <[e-mail]>

I usually have a project call "proto" with just that setup.  I just
load my object into proto at coords 0,0,0 save and render it.  Works
just fine.  I usually have two copies of Imagine running anyway, proto
and the project I am working on works great!

mark

##

Subject: PICTURE: CastleRoom.lzh on hubcap
Date: Sun, 19 May 91 19:16:50 -0400
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

Greetings, fellow Imagineers:

Another of my creations is now available via ftp from hubcap:
CastleRoom.lzh
    This one was a sheer memory hog to render because of its
20000+ polygons and plenty of brushes and textures.  Hope you like it!

 ._.  Udo Schuermann       "Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter
 ( )  [e-mail]    with the promise of the brave new world unfurled
 Seeking virtual memory     beneath the clear blue sky?" -- Pink Floyd

##

Subject: Help with sky gradients and 'Genlock' option..
Date: 20 May 91  2:26 -0500
From: "Jeff A. Bell" <[e-mail]>

A couple quick questions:

I can't seem to get Imagine to render a sky with a blended gradient: all I
manage to get are very distinct 'bands' of colour, with sharp delineations
between the colours.  I've tried setting the 'blending' option in the globals
to both 0 and 255: same thing both times.  I'm rending in 24bit, BTW.

Secondly, I wanted to have the reflections of the sky in a couple of my
objects, as they aren't really 'coloured', but rather depend on reflections
for colour.  I DIDN'T want the sky to actually show up though, so I set the
genlock option in the globals.  For some strange reason, I still got the sky.
Does this have anything to do with the fact that I did not have a 0 setting for
the star density?  (Come to think of it, it's rather dumb to have the star
setting anything BUT 0, since they don't show up in reflections anyway).  There is no real horizon, BTW: the images are 'hanging' out in space.  Have I solved
my own problem with regards to the star density setting?

Just got the upgrade from TS a couple weeks ago.  I do believe I'll burn the
Turbo Silver disk that Impulse was good enough to send back to me :)  Imagine's
very nice, IMHO..

Thanks in advance,

Jeff
--
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: Help with sky gradients and 'Genlock' option..
Date:    Mon, 20 May 91 10:36 EDT
From: "Doug Bischoff" <[e-mail]>

     As far as the sky gradients goes, when rendering in 24 bits the gradient
should be set to "0" in the Globals so you'll get true 24 bit shading.  But
when you load it into a program (such as Imagine!) to display it... that progra
m's dithering and color-interpretation algorythms will determine how much (if
any) banding you get... your 24 bit file will look fine, but only a good progra
m (such as ADPro or what have you) will dither it well enough to avoid banding.
     With the star fields... they DO show up in reflections but only in ray tra
ce mode.  (Look nice, too.)
     If you want to have the color of the background be on an object, just make
that object very reflective on all colors and it will reflect the "sky".

/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
| -Doug  Bischoff- |    *** ***    ====--\         | "Sir, I Protest! |
| -DEB110 @ PSUVM- |   *  ***  *     ==|<>\___     |  I   am   NOT  a |
| -The Black Ring- |    *** ***        |______\    |  Merry Man!"     |
| --- "Wheels" --- |      ***           O   O      |         -Worf    |
| Corwyn Blakwolfe |     T.R.I.     -------------  |          ST:TNG  |
\---- [e-mail]  D.BISCHOFF on GEnie  THIRDMAN on PAN -----/

##

Subject: Further to: Sky gradients in 24bit..
Date: 20 May 91 18:22 -0500
From: "Jeff A. Bell" <[e-mail]>

Thanks to those who responded, BTW..

I'm still not getting a smooth gradient of colours in the sky when rendering
24bit IFF's.  Someone suggested that it was due to the software I was using
to view/convert the pictures: sure enough, when I viewd the images in Imagine
using it's previewer, and setting the auto-dither option, it looked alright.

However, I own DCTV, and am able to view the 24bit files directly.  THIS is
where the sky looks terrible.  As I said before, there are sharp delineations
between the colours.  I fired up TS and tried rendering a picture of nothing
but sky, using similar settings, and it turned out A-1.  Much smoother
gradient of colours when viewed with DCTV.  It even allowed me to dither the
sky when rendering in 24bit.

Any ideas as to why I get such terrible looking skies with Imagine?

(BTW: the traces were in Scanline and Full Trace modes.  No difference)

Jeff
--
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: Help with sky gradients and 'Genlock' option..
Date: Mon, 20 May 91 16:53:01 CDT
From: bloom-beacon!think!ames!scubed!pro-party.cts.com!seanc (Sean Cunningham)

What you might want to try is environment mapping for the reflection of the
sky.

This is assuming, of course, that you have some kind of 24bit paint
software, or a copy of ADPro.

This way you can render chrome objects (or glass, or whatever) with all
sorts of nice reflections and maintain a black sky.  You can also
experiment with diagonal gradients, etc. to get interesting effects on
reflective metal objects, particularly text.

Sean

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .SIG v2.5 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
  UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc       RealWorld: Sean Cunningham
  ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party![e-mail]     Voice: [phone]
  INET: [e-mail]        ____________________________________
                                    // | * All opinions  expressed herein |
  HELP KEEP THE COMPETITION UNDER \X/  |   Copyright 1991 VISION GRAPHICS |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

##

Subject: Help with sky gradients and 'Genlock' option..
Date: Tue, 21 May 91 07:18:49 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm)

"Jeff A. Bell" <rutgers!ccu.umanitoba.ca!uubell> writes:

> A couple quick questions:
>
> I can't seem to get Imagine to render a sky with a blended gradient: all I
> manage to get are very distinct 'bands' of colour, with sharp delineations
> between the colours.  I've tried setting the 'blending' option in the globals
> to both 0 and 255: same thing both times.  I'm rending in 24bit, BTW.

This is probably just the view mode setting you have set in the
project screen.  If you render in 24-bit, you MUST click on the
Auto-Dither button above the Movie portion of the screen.  If you
don't, you will not get any dithering in the viewing of your image.

Of course, this button only affects the viewing of the 24bit image
and not any of the data in the image.  Your image is still a deep
image and you are only running the dither routine so you can get some
approximation of what the final image looks like in HAM mode if that
is what you have selected in your rendering sub-project.

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878

##

Subject: 3D at BCS meeting tonight
Date: Tue, 21 May 91 09:53:29 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

For anyone in the Boston area, the Amiga BCS (Boston Computer Society) will be
holding a meeting tonight focused on 3D software for the Amiga.  Spotlighted
will be Imagine and Animation: Journeyman (I'm almost certain but not positive
about Journeyman). The meeting begins 7:30pm tonight (May 21) at MIT, Building
E-51 (should be in room 302) in Cambridge. To get there by car, go west on
Memorial Drive from Longfellow Bridge to Wadsworth St. (first street on your
right); turn right. The building to your left is E-51; entrance to the parking
lot at the rear is from Amherst St., the first left on Wadsworth. The rear
entrances are on the 100 level. Steve Worley and Rich Nollman, I would hope
that you guys could make it since this is practically in your backyard.  For
those interested, I will be previewing the preliminary version of my film for
Siggraph which was created entirely with Lightwave. Hope to see ya there.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: PICTURE: CastleRoom.lzh on hubcap
Date: Tue, 21 May 91 16:33:50 -0400
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

John J. Humpal <[e-mail]>:
> What is hubcap's address?

Sorry!    hubcap.clemson.edu    130.127.8.1

 ._.  Udo Schuermann       "Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter
 ( )  [e-mail]    with the promise of the brave new world unfurled
 Seeking virtual memory     beneath the clear blue sky?" -- Pink Floyd

##

Subject: room pic on hubcap
Date: Tue, 21 May 91 19:29:12 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

I've uploaded an image to hubcap called room.lzh and concurrently noticed
Udo Schuermann's post of "CastleRoom.lzh". My room is just your basic living
room and though I had wanted to hang a nice picture on the wall, too, I
couldn't afford it. Maybe with more ram, soon.

Any responses are welcome. Maybe everyone could make a room, post it to hubcap,
and announce an "open house" Imagine tour. Or maybe post just the object,
possibly from an initial room "shell" with specified dimensions and doorways,
so that other rooms posted could be interconnected into one large house, and
then whoever has the guts to download all of them and render a fly-through
animation could output it to video and send us all a copy for a nominal fee.

Alan P.

##

Subject: Rooms
Date: Wed, 22 May 91 09:20:36 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Rob Borsari)

Well, it seems that rooms are a popular subject.  If we are going to put them
all together then we should submit the anim to Badge as a group effort.
I hereby volenteer (sic) to put all the rooms together.  We can make this
a distributed rendering project.  Everyone who submits a room gets a piece to
render in 24bit and I will dump them to laserdisk from a firecracker.  The
laserdisk part will cost money and that could be covered in the cost of the
video.  Anyone who is interested in this or putting any other images on disk
or tape from the firecracker can mail me at [e-mail].
If this gets going I can see about setting up a 'rooms' ftp area.
Very good idea Alan P.

[e-mail]     Rob Borsari     "Bourne to be Wild"

##

Subject: Rooms with views
Date: Wed, 22 May 91 18:15:37 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Hey, I LOVE the room idea. I have a cheese-ball room myself that
can be spiffed up.

Two parts to organize: Modularity and scale of the rooms, and
inside/outside view.

Should we have an infinite house of cubical rooms that have 4 doors
(1 in each room), or do we want to make a floor plan and post it, and
have people "claim" rooms? I like the floorplan idea.

Note that we can throw in a lot more of our previous (individual)
work, as paintings and pictures, or landscapes that can be viewed
outside of windows. We could also design an exterior if we like.

I'd be willing to help coordinate and render. I have a fast machine
and LOADS of storage (My brand spanking new 1.2 Gig drive!) and the
final result might be a very easy way to make a group project.

 Anyone want to make/find a floor plan? Do we want to make a LOT of
living rooms and offices, or do we want to accurately show kitchens
and bathrooms, and have a "real" house? This sounds like a lot of
fun, and everyone can help if they like.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re:  Rooms with views
Date: Thu, 23 May 91 08:19:02 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John Rosner)

Sounds like an interesting project.  Give us a scale and recommended
dimensions.  If you decide on the plan the exterior will probably be up to
one individual.  What about hanging pictures of ourselves (with a label) and
immediate family nicely framed of course.

##

Subject: Rooms
Date: Thu, 23 May 91 08:47:51 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Rob Borsari)

I dont think that a scale is really necessary.  If all the objects in the room
are proportional then they will remain so when scaled.  I think also that a
floor plan is not needed.  It should be possable to stick most of the rooms to
hallways.  2 rooms with stairs (one up and one down) that match will be needed.
    People who have objects that they want to throw in but don't want to
make a whole room can post them and collaborate with someone who has a room.
We need some idea of how many people are interested.

NOTICE NOTICE  NOTICE  NOTICE  NOTICE  NOTICE  NOTICE  NOTICE  NOTICE  NOTICE

Everyone who is interested in particapating in 'The Rooms Project(tm)' mail
me at [e-mail] with a message that is subject only and says
"Yes to Rooms"  I will total the responses and post here.  Please only
respond if you are willing to purchase the final product.  (Assume a cost of
<$10)  This will allow me to assess the cost of the laserdisk and transfer.
    Thank you for your support

NOTICE  NOTICE  NOTICE  NOTICE  NOTICE  NOTICE  NOTICE  NOTICE  NOTICE  end

[e-mail]       Rob Borsari     "Bourne to be Wild"

##

Subject: Rooms Project
Date: Thu, 23 May 91 13:47:58 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

Great to see some interest in this idea. Let's decide on a method and upload
to hubcap quick before any contractors find out we're building a house.

Suggestions concerning the responses made so far:

Global scaling doesn't *really* matter since rooms can be sized later, but
the scale of the doorway to the height of the ceiling does so that it would
match up to a neighboring room when connected (same with the widthXheigth
proportions of the doorway.)

A full, ready made floor-plan is a great idea, but perhaps it creates a finite
set of rooms - limiting the extent to which everyone can participate.
I would like to suggest uploading two rooms: very simple "boxes" - one that
would have a door on two opposing walls for an "inbetween" room, and one that
has a doorway on two adjacent walls for a "corner" room. These rooms could
then be downloaded by anyone and "furnished", or studied for its dimensions
in order to make a hallway, larger room, etc., that would match up.
    Again, these would be very simnple "shells" that one could add moulding,
textures, or any kind of embellishments to the walls in addition to the new
contents of the room. (Or even fancy doors since the original would be just
an open space - however the animator of this event would have to accept
the fact that s/he would have to create motion files to swing these doors open
in the fly-through.)

I would like make the offer of uploading these two "shells" to hubcap in the
incoming/IMAGINE/OBJECTS directory as "RoomShells.lzh". I will, however, not
be able to do this until tomorrow as I have to go home and make them tonight.
I'll look for any "go-aheads" or "wait-a-minutes" on this list tomorrow.

As far as trying to stay with the traditional contents of a household, maybe it
would be more fun to stay open with a Dadaist's "Exquisite Corpse" approach
where turning the next corner you may find what you least expected.

MY BIG QUESTION IS: Concerning the responses already, it obvious that if you
love Imagine you love to wrap. How do we handel objects which require brush
wraps?  where do we put the image files and how should they be identified as
belonging with a certain object? How should the path in the object attributes
wrap file requester be handled, certainly we can not expect the the person who
puts this all together to have to sweat out possible problems here.

One more thing about the rooms: It should be kept in mind that no one person
has to furnish an entire room, they could just put object in a room and then
post it back to hubcap. Perhaps a set of rooms would begin to accumulate that
could be called "CommunalRoom.1,2,3..etc." a ReadMe file should be attached to
each that could be re-edited with names of those that add each new object(s).
(Obviously, these objects should be personal creations and not something that
you just found somewhere) Rooms that have been designed and uploaded by one
author should have a more unique name and be accompanied by a readme file
along the lines of, "this is my room, go play somewhere else." (or perhaps
more polite.)

P.S. For multi-level house: anyone could make a "double-high" room with stairs
     or even spriral stairs! Just make the doorways match if it were put up
     against two other stacked rooms.

P.S.S Maybe we should decide on a deadline for rooms to be done, like a month
      from now or something. What do you think? Less?

Alan P.

##

Subject: Re:  3D at BCS meeting tonight
Date: Thu, 23 May 91 14:12:46 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Steven Worley)

I went to the BCS meeting Monday night and met Mark Thompson and saw
his Lightwave video. Very nicely done, Mark!

At the meeting they had a demo of Imagine. I gritted my teeth and
resisted the temptation to yell at him. He used and liked Imagine, but
didn't give an impressive demo. He showed some splashy but substanceless
renderings, which at least were fun to look at. He quickly showed
3D Professional, and gave everyone the distinct impression that it was
the best Amiga 3D program by far. Sure, 3D Pro is nice, especially for
beginners, but I'
I doubt anyone would call it the best by any means. We can have a
spirited flame war about Imagine and Lightwave, though. They are both
excellent programs, Lightwave for grace and ease of use, and Imagine
for untamed power.

One useful trick I learned about setting weird brush map axes. You have
to use local mode to set the axes or sometimes the axes won't "stick."
Even then, sometimes it won't work. The guy giving the demo showed how if
you select "size" in the transform axes requestor, and just hit return
for the default values, the numbers will become permanent. Pain in the
rear, but it's a second workaround for that bug.

Does anyone have any house blueprints we could digitize or CADD? This would
give us a very realistic house layout because it IS a house layout.

I want to do a nice foyer with ascending stairs, a nice wood railing, a
throwrug on the floor, maybe a grandfather clock, and a nice
front door with a big brass knocker. :-) Anyone else have a preference
for what kind of room they might like to do?

-Steve

[e-mail]     <- cheesy .sig!

##

Subject: Re:  Rooms with views
Date: Thu, 23 May 91 14:39:48 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Brian Reynolds)

The model railroaders have a similar system called modules.  A group
publishes a specification (NTRAK is a popular one for N scale modules)
and if two people build their modules to the spec they should be able
to connect them with no trouble.  The spec would describe things like
the number of main lines, the road grade and how to make special
modules like corners.

If you write a spec, you want to include a scale.  Why waste the time
rescaling all these different rooms?  They might have to be rescaled to
fit the entire building within Imagine's world size, but they shouldn't
be rescaled just to connect them.  When two rooms connect, the spec
should state who is responsible for providing the door (the other room
has to have a doorway of course).  Also don't forget about wall
thickness.  To have real doors with thickness you need someplace for
the door to go when you close it.  The size of various doors (and open
doorways) should be specified.  Ceiling heights are another thing that
should be in the spec.  If every one builds a different ceiling height
then rescaling the rooms wouldn't work.  Every room should not connect
to all its neighbors.  How many real houses do you know like that?

You might not want to make a floor plan until you have a couple of
rooms done (or at least rough hacks).  This is less restrictive, and
allows you to figure out how many other rooms you'll need to fill in
around the big rooms (kitchen, living room).

You shouldn't have to write the entire spec from scratch.  If you go to
a bookstore, or a library, you should be able to find a book for
architects that provides this type of spec for real buildings.  You
don't need the big building codes book, one of the smaller books for
planning your house would do.

Brian Reynolds "... a drone from sector 7G."
Fusion Systems Group
[e-mail] -or- ...!uupsi!fsg!reynolds

##

Subject: Re: Rooms Project
Date: Thu, 23 May 91 17:45:47 -0400
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

[e-mail] (Alan Price) writes:
> Global scaling doesn't *really* matter since rooms can be sized later,
> but the scale of the doorway to the height of the ceiling does so that
> it would match up to a neighboring room when connected (same with the
> widthXheigth proportions of the doorway.)

Open-walled corridors may be a solution here.  Just have wall and
ceiling, and let the walls of the rooms fit snug and provide their
own doorways.
    Scaling, however, can be a problem when textures are involved:
Take Bricks, for example:  the X,Y,Z related values are not altered in
the texture as the object is scaled.
    I suggest providing certain guidelines for floor-to-ceiling
height, wall thickness perhaps, etc.  How about some sort of theme?
Cyberpunk and Baroque doesn't mix too well, in my humble opinion.


> A full, ready made floor-plan is a great idea, but perhaps it creates
> a finite set of rooms - limiting the extent to which everyone can
> participate.

Have a sign-up period.  That gives us an idea how many rooms we need
to give everyone a Piece of the Action.  Then, give anyone who likes
a chance to draw floorplans (a standard ILBM IFF?) with N rooms.  We
vote on which to use, along with the nook room we'd like to work on.


> MY BIG QUESTION IS: Concerning the responses already, it obvious that
> if you love Imagine you love to wrap. How do we handel objects which
> require brush wraps?  where do we put the image files and how should
> they be identified as belonging with a certain object?

Just use a simple directory structure, perhaps similar to this:
    Imagine:Brushes        (color, filter, ...)
    Imagine:Textures    (no need to pass these around)
    Imagine:Effects        (ditto)
    Imagine:Objects        (perhaps with subdirectories for each
                room?  subdirectories for types of
                objects?)


> One more thing about the rooms: It should be kept in mind that no one
> person has to furnish an entire room, they could just put object in a
> room and then post it back to hubcap.

Difficult to safely coordinate handing a room around.  Just think of
the possibility for (near) simultaneous access to the same .readme
file.  We'd need some sort of coordinator to handle check-in/check-out
operations and manage a wait queue.


> P.S. For multi-level house: anyone could make a "double-high" room
>      with stairs or even spriral stairs! Just make the doorways match
>      if it were put up against two other stacked rooms.

I like this idea very much!  Architectural wonders in a virtual reality.


> P.S.S Maybe we should decide on a deadline for rooms to be done, like
>       a month from now or something. What do you think? Less?

I support the deadline idea, although I will probably be victimized by
it: I'm about to go on vacation for 3 weeks ... I really want to
participate.  Must I miss out?  <sniff>

 ._.  Udo Schuermann       "Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter
 ( )  [e-mail]    with the promise of the brave new world unfurled
 Seeking virtual memory     beneath the clear blue sky?" -- Pink Floyd

##

Subject: Re:Rooms with views
Date: Thu, 23 May 91 19:36:11 EDT
From: [e-mail]

I dislike the idea of a long corridor with rooms sprouting off of it.
There would be no way to smoothy move through the whole "house"
without spending too much time in the hallway, and the motion wouldn't
be continuous or logical for the viewer.

I much prefer the "real house" idea, which has a natural layout, can
have interesting paths from one room to another, and has different
TYPES of rooms. I am frightened that everyone will submiteither 1) An
office with desk & chairs, 2) a living room with a bunch of chairs
around a coffee table. Boring!

Again, does anyone have some blueprints? Or want to have a go at
using DPaint or something to make floor plans?

I also suggest that we set a scale of 50 units = 1 meter. One story
would be 150 units, with a 145 unit floor-to-cieling spacing and
5 unit buffer between floors.

We could also use feet, but English units suck. :-)

Our world (without mucking with world-size) is then 41 meters wide,
which would allow for a small landscaped yard and driveway or
something. It would obviously be just as deep. That's a lot of room to
play with, and it's large enough it would render at a decent speed but
we wouldn't have objects so small that we'd have quantum-positioning
problems woth object coordinates.


-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re:  Rooms Project
Date: Thu, 23 May 91 22:55:58 CDT
From: Wayne Haufler 283-4160 <[e-mail]>

Hello,

I am a newcomer to this Imagine Mailing List since May 21.
I am interested in contributing to "The Rooms Project", if I ever get
my stock A2000 back from the shop ( I made some costly mistakes trying
to install a hard disk; and me, an Electrical Inginur (sic)!:^(  ).

Steve Worley ( [e-mail] ) writes:
>Again, does anyone have some blueprints? Or want to have a go at
>using DPaint or something to make floor plans?

Yes, I have made a floorplan!  It is a 2-D Aegis Draw 2000 drawing and
hi-res IFF images of the floorplan of my church's (Gloria Dei
Lutheran) entire building complex after several long night sessions
pouring over blueprints and measurements I took myself.  In fact, my
original idea (vision?) for using my Amiga 2000 (actually bought it used,
with 5 Meg RAM, 25 Meg disk) was to model, render, and animate a walk
through my church's new building - the Christian Life Center to get
people excited about the Building Program.  I did not get that far, but
I have used the floorplan images in a prototype Information Kiosk for
Gloria Dei implemented in CanDo, and have plotted it for signs and
handouts (what a mini-adventure THAT was!), AND am generating a 2-D
"Animated History of the Gloria Dei Building Complex", AND have
converted and passed the plot file to a fellow Gloria Dei-er who used
an IBM AT clone and CorelDRAW to generate a very nice big sign.  So,
you see, we are getting a lot of mileage out of that floorplan effort
:).

I have been wanting to extrude and furnish that floorplan in 3-D in
Imagine, but that is too ambitious (ie time-consuming) for now.  I may
have time to make the general shape of the beautiful wedge-shaped
sanctuary room, but this non-rectangular big room would not fit well in
the Rooms Project scheme.  I really doubt that this entire floorplan
would be appropriate for this project, but I will upload this IFF file,
anyway, if it would help (but can only do that after I get my machine
back, doggone it :( ).  However, I do not have a connection to the
USENET via my Amiga, but via the Sun 4 workstations here at work, so up
and down loading is a two-step process.  I will return later (after
weekend?) with the general scale of the building complex.

There are some beautiful complex pieces in that room - the big pipe
organ, altar, lectern, lanterns, cross - of which I have modeled only
the cross, so far.  I could at least furnish a room with one or two
wall hanging objects that I have made - the wood and gold cross, and/or
a metallic, maze-like 'Cross under a (non-New Age) Rainbow' logo, if
nobody objects overly much.

BTW, Sorry for the apparent boasting, but you see, I am also casting
about for fellow Christian Amigians who may be interested in
collaborating on some graphics &/or animation projects, not necessarily
limited to Imagine.  I have several ideas and unfinished projects to
describe and share.  So if anybody out there is interested, by all
means, lets talk.

I'd better send this now, before it gets too long.

-Wayne

===============================================================================
          ____  Wayne A. Haufler     ([e-mail])
\    /\    /\    /    McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company - Houston Div.
 \  /--\  /  \  /--      [Christian/SW Engineer/Amigan/Tenor/Violist/Single]
  \/    \/    \/____    "Exploring the Use of Computer Graphics and Animations"
        /                   "To Serve and Support Christian Endeavors"
       /
               !!CAUTION: SIGNATURE UNDER CONSTRUCTION!!
(I have ALWAYS (since Jr.High) wanted to use the above WAYNE construction!)
===============================================================================

##

Subject: Rooms
Date: Fri, 24 May 91 10:05:36 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Rob Borsari)

I have gotten 5 "Yes To Rooms" messages so far.  On the scale thing, Setting a
scale is a good idea.  I have been using 1unit= 6" on a guided missile Cruiser
I have been building (Yes I have considered posting it) ((CG-52 Bunker Hill)).
This makes it easer to transfer things from the drawings but is not so good for
rendering.  I would suggest english mesurements for the simple fact that all
architecture is done in feet and "'s.   A floor plan is a good idea (keep in mi
nd that all rooms are not rectangular) but should not be chosen untill we know
how many rooms are going to be built.  The communial rooms can be handled by
mail.  EX.  Bill announces that he started an "open" room (rooms don't need all
the walls either but i digress B^) and he is looking for help.  Izzy mails him
asking to help.  Bill mails the (uuencoded) room to Izzy.  Osbert asks bill for
the room so Bill tells Izzy to mail it to Osbert when he (Izzy) is finished.
   Deep breath.  and so on .....
Time limit -- Good Idea but Maybe should be like july for finnished rooms,
          4 weeks for a floorplan, 2 weeks to decide if you are in or not.
          Anyone claming to be in but not producing a room will have to
          by the tape anyway or it messes up the cost estimite.
Outside of the house may be a project for someone possibly me (I do this for a
living) or somone else may want to do it.  ((create objects not houses))
Sorry if I have forgotten anything my brain is still asleep.  Lots of good
ideas flying around here.  I don't know of any project of this type that has
been undertaken by people who have never met each other.  (Except Udo and I)
 It could turn into somthing very interesting and possibly start a trend in
 networking. /* Geez must be tired Im getting mushy */  Keep it up  -R-
 [e-mail]   Rob Borsari   "Bourne to be Wild"

##

Subject: ROOMS
Date: Fri, 24 May 91 11:40:16 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

As I had mentioned yesterday, I went home and spent some time making the
rooms I had initially suggested. I am not going to try to make this the
absolute way to do this, as certainly majority rules in a democratic system.

However, since I spent the time, I went ahead and uploaded the file to hubcap
inb the IMAGINE/OBJECTS directory as "ROOMS.lzh" and "ROOMS.ReadMe", for any
interested parties' perusal. I do not expect this format to be used unitl we
have all decided upon one system.

If you download the files, you will find two room objects "CornerRoom.obj",
and "MidRoom.obj", along with a iff screen-grab of Imagine's detail editor
showing four rooms attached together, and a text file that attempts to cover
all aspects of keeping some kind of standard going.

If you look these over and study the room objects, it should be apparent that
it would be very easy to change the shape of a room to an "L"-shape, long
rectangle, two-story with stairs or loft, or whatever. The *key* is that
the rooms set a door size and ceiling height standard.

While the idea of a floor-plan is neat and is creating a lot of talk, I'm a
little afraid that it might not result in much more than that. Please don't
take this too critically, but if the scale of the rooms provided were used
right now, this project could begin immediately. As I mentioned before, this
idea is very much along the idea of the Dada "exquisite corpse" game - where
each person takes a pre-folded piece of paper and the first draws a head, the
next draws the upper torso without seeing the head, the third the mid-section,
and so on, until the paper is unfolded, revealing a surprize that nobody could
expect!!
     It is with this concept that we should expect very unusual changes when
turning the next corner or passing through a doorway in a house built by 10
or even twenty Imagineers!! Not only would this project showcase the ability
of Imagine, but the talents and various techniques and styles of different
users!

I had not initially thought about an exterior with yard, driveway, etc..
Though a "shell" house could easily be fit around the rooms once the rooms
that were submitted were all fitted together in the best way possible. It
wouldn't matter if there were "empty" spaces in the walls because I don'sdon't think the house will be "x-rayed".
 Actually my own suggestion would be to start the animation looking directly
at the front stoop of the house (The rest of the exterior of the house may
not even exist, but we would'nt see that), a title would appear, "Imagine's
Open House", or whatever, the door swings open, and we're on our way!
  It's this entrance foyer that I would like to suggest honors go to Steve
Worley to produce, for reasons self-evident. Put that big brass knocker on the
front door! But you can do a laundry room, too, if you really want.

As far as winding up with a bunch of living rooms or offices, I hope it does'nt
come to that. Maybe if everyone sends a note to this mailing list as to what
they are making, too many things won't be repeated. ( I like Rob Borsari's
idea a lot.) Personally, I was thinking of a double-high room with a spiral
staircase, or maybe that rubber-room I keep envisioning in the back of my
mind.

Please download the ROOMS.lzh file and tell me what you think.

Alan P.

##

Subject: TARDIS
Date: Fri, 24 May 91 15:59:27 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Laurana Bailey)

Any Imagineers out there also Doctor Who fans? Has anyone done up the
TARDIS or K-9 or a Dalek as a 3D Object file? If so, can I get them
from you? If not, anyone willing to try? I tried doing the TARDIS
myself and it looked more like a cracker tin than a time machine. I'm
not very good at creating objects yet.


--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
|Just another lemming...        | Yet another Amiga maniac set loose   |
|                               | on the world...and you thought things|
|[e-mail]  | couldn't get any worse.              |

##

Subject: Rooms - I'll do the washroom
Date:     Fri, 24 May 1991 13:39:37 -0400
From: cbmtor![e-mail] (Caleb J. Howard (Product Support))

Hello,
      My name is Caleb.  I work for Commodore up here in Canada eh.  I like
      this idea of a communal house project.  If it's not already taken, I'll
      do the washroom.  Why the washroom? you ask.  Well, there's potential
      for futuristic appliances with an intimate look at the virtual
      inhabitant's personal habits.  (No lewd connotations, I swear)

      Anyhow, if someone is taking charge, please mail me some specs/dimensions
      for the lou.

-caleb

##

Subject: TARDIS Object...
Date: Fri, 24 May 91 23:37:36 PDT
From: Daryl T. Bartley <[e-mail]>

Sorry if this is a repeat, but I am not sure if the first message got through
at all...I have been having trouble sending to the list, it keeps bouncing.

Well, anyway, I have an object of the TARDIS that I made (With Turbo Silver,
argh)...the windows could PROBABLY use some more detail, but it is definately
recognizable. I am working on getting the signs on top, and the sign on the doorwrapped onto it, but since I am running on a 1 meg system (Are you CRAZY?!), I
can't do it myself. But, if anyone wants to take a look at it, I'll send it to
hubcap, maybe with a render I did of it, too.

If anyone finds any use for it, that's great, just maybe give me a small credit
SOMEWHERE if you could.


Daryl Bartley
[e-mail]
--
Still don't have the darn .sig rebuilt!

##

Subject: ROOMS
Date: Sat, 25 May 91 12:23:58 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

So far Caleb J Howard says he's going to make a WASHROOM ( a futuristic one )
       Laurana Bailey is going work on a bedroom.
       Steve Worley mentioned doing a entrance foyer with staircase.
       I'm planning a room with spiral stairs and loft.
       I've also got an idea for a bathroom.

I've returned to school here on a Saturday out of sheer excitement for this
project. I saw two of the above responses that were new, but what I don't know
is whetheer anybody has looked at the "ROOMS.lzh" file on hubcap?

I'm hoping for responses on whether people want to go with this idea or if we
need to follow another design. I'm especially awaitng responses from spworley,
Bob Borsari, Udo, Brian R., and others who have been discussing possibilities
for this project.

P.S. It suddenly dawned on me that Caleb may be using the term "washroom" for
     what I called a "bathroom" ( I was thinking "laundryroom", a possible
     mix-up with that foreign Canadian lingo.) If you meant the room with all
    the ceramic appliances and personal hygiene stuff, then I stand corrected.

Since everyone else is probably out for the weekend, I'm outta here, too.
I'll check in on Tuesday.

Alan P.

##

Subject: FTP of public objects
Date: Sat, 25 May 91 12:20:35 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Terry Clayton)

I just recently got on this mailing list and was interested in
the FTP location of the publicly available Imagine objects, etc.
They used to be at ab20.larc.nasa.gov but since it has been
reorganized (good job by the way) I have not been able to find
them.  I keep seeing a mention of "hubcap" but don't know what
that means.
                          Thanks for the info!
                          Terry Clayton
                          [e-mail]

##

Subject: It's there now...
Date: Sat, 25 May 91 18:13:11 PDT
From: Daryl T. Bartley <[e-mail]>

Well, for anyone interested, I put my TARDIS object up on hubcap.clemson.edu,
in the right dir (I am pretty sure)...Have fun with it.

Good luck with the rooms project, too. I wish I could join in, but anything I
can create on my computer wouldn't be worth it next to all those wonderful
complex objects. Oh well.

Any ideas on how much a copy of the tape might be? I would like to see it when
it is done, even if I can't participate.

Daryl T. Bartley
[e-mail]

--
In Search Of...a .sig!

##

Subject: Rooms
Date: Sun, 26 May 91 19:04:00 -0500
From: Donald Richard Tillery Jr <[e-mail]>

Hey folks, this house idea is a stroke of brilliance.  Since most of the
normal rooms are scarfed up, I'm putting my bid in on a game room.  I
thought maybe a large room that could be a basement with lots of entertainment
items in it.  If a basement is a bad idea, I can limit it to the size of a
normal room (which is what?).  SOMEBODY let me know what direction I should
tend toward.  In the mean time I'll start working on the objects.

Later.

Rick Tillery ([e-mail])

##

Subject: Rooms
Date: Tue, 28 May 91 18:05:41 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

Please disregard the mention in my previous note of the ROOMS.lzh file
on hubcap. It has been removed.

##

Subject: Rooms
Date: Tue, 28 May 91 17:58:46 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

Rooms thus far:   Foyer w/staircase - Steve Worley
                  Washroom          - Caleb Howard
                  Bedroom           - Laurana Bailey
                  Gameroom          - Rick Tillery
                  Conservatory      - Doug Bischoff
                  Spiral stairs     - Alan Price

     These have been mentioned by the above people as ideas that they want
to do. None of them have been made yet, to my knowledge (except the room
with spiral stairs). I built my room from a "CornerRoom" and "MidRoom"
objects that I uploaded to hubcap in the IMAGINE/OBJECTS directory. These
room objects are empty shells for anyone to work from in any reconfiguration,
just as long as the proportions of the doorways and ceilings remain the same.
(The scale of these rooms happen to be about the same as SPWorley suggested,
but doubled in "units" - i.e., one story is 300 units, the rest of the specs
are in a text file with the object archive.)

NOTE - Since it has not been decided that this scale is the best to go with
  by everyone, it does not mean you can't go ahead and start making the
  contents of your room. Just re-scale them to fit the rooms later. (Be
  prepared to change parameters in any texture attributes.)

I am still waiting on responses about the ROOMS.lzh file on hubcap. Anything
like, "Ok, this'll work.", or "wait what about this and that, etc." please.

A.P.

##

Subject: rooms
Date: Tue, 28 May 91 18:43:27 PDT
From: Mark Davis <[e-mail]>

I have a "sunroom-hottub-recreation-view room" I have been working on for
a "while" that I would like to enter.  As soon as I get my A2000
working again(GVP II hangs when adding 2nd SCSI device(tape or disk))
I'll finish it up.  This room I am creating has a VISTA view through
one of its windows although that may change depending on the size
limitations of the objects.  ARE there size limitations on the objects?

mark

##

Subject: Forms Tutorial Part I & II
Date: Wed, 29 May 91 12:53:05 EDT
From: [e-mail]

This is my long-promised tutorial on the Forms Editor. It is split
into two sections in order to keep mailers from choking. The first
part (which you are reading now) describes how the Forms Editor creates
its objects and what each menu option does. The second file contains
three step-by-step examples that show you how real objects are planned
and built in the Forms Editor.

There is a set of screen grabs and example pictures on hubcap.clemson.edu
in the pub/amiga/incoming/IMAGINE/MISC directory in a file called
Form_Tutorial.lzh. You might want to download this file to help with
the example forms I describe.

I've spent a LOT of time in writing over 40K in text to make this
tutorial and especially the example pictures. Any feedback is GREATLY
appreciated, as it will spur me on to doing a Detail Editor tutorial
sooner.

-Steve

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

                       The Imagine Forms Editor


The creation of objects in Imagine is certainly not as intuitive as
the process you used in kindergarten to squeeze clay into vague animal
shapes. Instead of a real life view of the object, you get a
complex quad-view display. Instead of using your grubby fingers, you
have a very 2-D mouse. Most importantly, if you wanted to change the
shape of a clay model, you just pushed and pulled on it. In Imagine
(and any other computer modeler) you have to use a very specific set
of tools to manipulate your objects. No matter how powerful these
tools are, they are still going to limit the ways you can manipulate
your creation.

This tutorial is a taste of the Forms editor. The editor is VERY
powerful, but not necessary easy to describe. It allows you to create
certain types of detailed object shapes quickly and easily, and is
certainly not limited to the asteroid-like example in the Imagine
manual.

---------------------------------
Part I- What IS the Forms Editor?
---------------------------------

You might have noticed that Forms has in essence NO description in
the Imagine manual. The manual's tutorials do not describe how the Form
Editor works or why you should use it other than "It is very powerful"
and "It can make organic forms easily." I don't blame Rick Rodriguez-
the Forms Editor is difficult to understand and hell to explain even
in person.

It is very hard to describe how the Forms Editor works. It uses a very
strange method of defining it's objects that is difficult to put into
words. You might want to re-read this explanation a few times, since
the Form Editor is much easier to control when you know what it is
doing and how it determines your object's shape.

The Forms Editor defines it's objects as a set of varying radii
cross-sections. You have a great amount of control over both the shape
and size of these cross-sections.

Think of an orange, and the wedge-shape segments that make up the
orange's cross section. If the orange wedge were in the shape of a
square instead of a half-circle, the orange would become a cylinder
instead of a sphere.  If you make the square wedges in one direction a
different size than the wedges at 90 degrees to them, the orange
distorts into a squashed cylinder which looks like an oval from the
top.

If you define the wedges to be square in one direction and crescent
shaped the other (90 degree) direction, you will get an orange shaped
like a cross between a cylinder and a sphere- the resulting object is
something like a sphere with two ends sanded to a smoothly
beveled edge.

Another way we might mutate the orange is instead of changing the
shape of the  wedges, we can change the radius of each wedge
as we look at them from the top of the orange. If the wedges on the
front side of the orange have a larger radius than the rest of the
wedges (but the same shape), the orange is going to look like it is
ballooning with air pressure with one swollen side.

If the radius of each wedge changes as you go around the orange
(perhaps an alternating big-small-big-small), the orange will take on
a fluted, star-like horizontal cross-section. Any vertical
cross-section will still be circular.

Got that so far? Well, this is exactly what the Form Editor allows you
to do. You can define a the shape of these wedges in both the
front-to-back and left-to-right directions, as well as having
completely independent control over the radial size of these cross
sections.

When you mix these abilities, you can produce an AMAZING number of
complex shapes, especially since each wedge can loop up and down and
form holes and cross over itself. No tree ever made an orange with the
peel intersecting itself, but the Forms editor will gladly create a
shape like this for you.  The Forms editor handles all of the details
and bookkeeping, and lets you worry about your form.

The actual mechanics of producing the object are a bit complex, though
straightforward. There are four user-defined cross sections (at 0, 90,
180, and 270 degrees, looking from the top) each with the same number
of points defining it. Every section around the orange comes out at a
certain angle (like 45 degrees) and its cross section is interpolated
from the four pre-defined cross sections (probably linearly, it's hard
to tell). For the 45 degree example, the cross section would be
formed by taking the 0 degree and 90 degree user defined cross sections
and assigning each 45 degree cross section point a position mid-way between
its corresponding location at the 0 degree cross section  and its
location at the 90 degree cross section. Thus, the cross section will
smoothly change from one shape to another as you move around the form.

Once the vertical cross section is determined, they are scaled
radially by an amount given by the radius of the user defined
HORIZONTAL cross section (the top view). An area where the horizontal
cross section has a radial bulge will cause the wedge at that point to
stick out a bit more. These bulges can be as severe as you like.
Instead of a bulge, it is easy to make a sharp knife point.

This method of defining objects gives you an amazing amount of
control.  The radial control alone is completely flexible, allowing
you to use negative radii, or move the points so that the outside
surface actually reverses itself and backtracks.  The vertical cross
section is equally malleable, allowing you to make self-intersecting
walls that are either closed or tube-like. [Or both!]

That's it! The user defined vertical and horizontal cross sections
completely determine the shape of the object. It is very useful to
know how the form is actually constructed- it is not easy to figure
out, and the documentation does not describe the method at all. Once you
understand how Imagine makes the object, you can actually plan how to
build a specific shape.

One great advantage to the Forms Editor is the fact that the form is
continuous- it is made one piece. This means that making smoothly
rounded corners is easy. Organic forms in particular do NOT have sharp
right angles and flat planes in them, and are particularly well suited to
creation in the Forms Editor. Any object created in the Detail Editor
tends to be made of extruded or primitive objects joined together- there
is rarely any smooth transition between the joined segments.

--------------------------------
Part II- Use of the Forms Editor
--------------------------------

The actual creation of these cross-section forms is pretty easy. The
Form editor is particularly fast in it's response, since the tri-view
does not have as many points to update as the view in the Detail Editor.

When you start up the Forms Editor, you have the option of loading in
an old form or starting a new one (By choosing "load" or "new" from the
Object menu). You have a decision when you make a new object on
whether you want an X-Y cross-section or an X-Z cross section. The X-Y
option makes your object like the orange- the segments are all
arranged around the vertical axis. X-Z orients the object on its side,
like a piece of wood on a lathe. (The Form editor can emulate a lathe
very easily, but is much, much more versatile.) Most of the time
you'll want an X-Y cross-section, but everything works similarly for
an X-Z.

You also have a choice on how many points and cross sections to add.
The "# of slices" is NOT the number of orange segments, but the
number of points that defines each orange segment. The "# of points" is
the number of orange slices you have. These labels are defined sort of
backwards, but if you confuse them it is easy to fix. I feel the
default numbers are very large- its easier to start with a simple
version of your form and add points later for detail. It is EXTREMELY
easy to increase (or decrease) the number of points and segments
later, so I usually start with something like 12 points, 8 sections.
Again, this is easy to change later. If you start with many
points, it takes a considerable amount of time just to move each of
the points into your coarse shape before you refine details.

The default start up form is that of a sphere with two small holes in it
at the top and bottom.

The Form Editor does NOT display objects in it's triview like the
stage and detail editors do. It shows the vertical cross sections (the
orange wedge shapes) in the front and right views, the horizontal cross
section (wedge radius as you go around) in the top view. The perspective
view is accurate, and you can select wireframe, solid, or shaded mode
by using the View menu just like you would in the other Editors. I prefer
solid because many forms get very complex very fast, and it is difficult to
see the basic structure in the wireframe mode.

To manipulate a cross section, you just grab a point and move it to
where you want. You can change all FOUR of the vertical cross
sections- if you look in the bottom views, each cross section is a
separate string of points. If you select a point, it's corresponding
points on each of the other cross sections will highlight for
comparison. You can define each cross section completely
independently- the front view will let you manipulate the cross
sections of the orange at 0 degrees and 180 degrees, and the right
view will let you set the 90 and 270 degree cross sections.

Note that the 4 cross sections are not connected at the top and
bottoms. You are free to move the top and bottom away from the center
axis. Moving the points so they lie on top of each other on the Z axis
will cause the object to close at that point. Moving one or more points
away from the axis will cause a hole or entrance to the center of your
object to appear. This allows your object to be open at the top and/or
bottom, so you could have a tube or bowl instead of a sphere.

If two opposing cross sections (like 0 and 180 degrees) touch and the
other two do not, you will end up with an object with an intersection in the
shape of a bow tie. If you do connect any of the points (you can
connect in the middle, too!) you might want to make sure they are
EXACTLY on top of each other and then use the Detail Editor MERGE
command when you're finally done with design. This will decrease the
file size of your form, increase rendering speed, and increase the
ability of the Phong shading.

Most of the time you don't need to control each individual point, and
if you were making a simple object it would be irregular due to slight
differences in the cross-sections. The Form Editor has a very useful
feature called symmetry that will fix this problem. If you turn on
symmetry, whenever you move a point, it's corresponding point(s) will
follow and put themselves in the corresponding position. There are
five options for symmetry:

 o None.  Every point is completely independent. Default.

 o Front. The 0 degree points will follow the 180 degree points
          and vice versa. 90 and 270 are completely independent.

 o Right. The 90 degree points will follow the 270 degree points
          and vice versa. 0 and 180 are completely independent.

 o Both.  The 90 degree points will follow the 270 degree points
          and vice versa. The 0 degree points will follow the 180
          degree points and vice versa. Think of it as "oval"
          symmetry.

 o 90     Every point will follow the corresponding point in every
   degree view. Complete radial symmetry.


These symmetry options are very easy to use. Note that turning on
symmetry does not immediately make the cross sections symmetric-
only points you touch and move will change.

Most graceful objects have at least one axis of symmetry, many have
two, and some have 90 degree symmetry. Note that 90 degree symmetry is
actually completely circular. Thus, any swept object (from the Detail
editor) can actually be made by using 90 degree symmetry and keeping
the radius constant (the top view of the horizontal cross-section).

The top view does not have any symmetry controls, and sometimes it
would be nice to be able to keep the points somewhat ordered. One way
around this is to use "lock" from the select menu. Lock will
automatically snap any point you move to the nearest grid location to
where you let it go.  This is very useful for making straight lines,
or for creating symmetric cross sections in the top view. You can also
select a bunch of points at once (using the shift key) and use "snap
to grid" in the object menu. This makes each point move to the grid
location closest to it. You can use the drag box or lasso to help
choose what points to select.

Grid size is obviously very important when using lock, since it
determines the grid intersections. I definitely recommend using grid
sizes like 32, 64, and 128. Using 20, 25, 50, 100 certainly seems
reasonable until you start dealing with grids like 6.25 or 3.125.  The
power-of-two grids also work well with zooming, since zoom-in and
zoom-out double and halve the screen scale. This is obviously a matter
of choice for each user. Some times when dealing with real blueprints
or measured objects, different scales are much easier to deal with.

There is no question that when you want to build an object in the
Forms Editor, you should start simple and work up. Unlike the Detail
Editor where adding new (non-modular) details is difficult, adding
more polygon resolution is a snap in the Forms Editor.

There are actually three modes to the Form Editor. The default is
"Edit" which allows you to drag points around to define the
cross-sections. However, you can also add new points by selecting
"Add" and clicking on CURRENT points. A new point will be added on the
line connecting the point you clicked on and one of it's neighbors.
You can also position this new point by keeping the mouse button down
and dragging the point to its new location. You can edit these new
points in Edit mode at any later time.

If you add a new radial point (top view) you'll see the point appear
at the next (clockwise) segment.  If you add a new vertical cross
section point, you'll see FOUR points appear, one in each of the four
cross section (this is reasonable- the cross sections can't have
different numbers of points!)  Deletion is done by selecting delete
mode and clicking on the unwanted points. Again, 4 points will go away
if you select a cross section from the front or right views.

It is so simple to add points that defining a new object with a lot of
starting points is silly. It is VERY difficult to control that many
points, especially in the top view where there you can't use symmetry.
It is easier to start off with about 8 points per vertical cross
section and around 12 radial sections, and arrange these in a coarse
approximation of your object to get general shape and proportions,
then add more points for details. Trying to stretch a cross section
with a lot of points can be a royal pain.

Remember, the plan is to start off with a few points and work up. You'll
often find you don't need as many points as you thought to get a well
defined object. The example projects all use a few points to define the
coarse shape, then add point to make fine details.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Forms Tutorial Part III
Date: Wed, 29 May 91 13:17:15 EDT
From: [e-mail]

------------------
Part III- Examples
------------------

As a final demonstration of how the Form Editor is used, I'll describe
three tutorial objects you can make. You are EXTREMELY advised to sit
down an make these objects. Reading the tutorial is fine, but moving
the mouse around is the best way to learn how to make these sorts of
things yourself.

There are some screen grabs of some key steps in these tutorials in a
file called Form_Tutorial.lzh on hubcap.clemson.edu in the
/pub/amiga/incoming/IMAGINE/MISC directory. These screen grabs show
the step by step evolution of the examples, as well as a couple of
rendered examples. You might want to get these (especially for the
last example) but you're welcome to wing it by using the text alone.
The file also has a copy of this text in it, so you won't have to
separate this mail message out if you're getting it on the mailing list.
If you don't know what FTP is, ask a local computer wizard and hope
you have access. :-)

---------------------------------------------------------------------
                       A Coke (TM) Can
---------------------------------------------------------------------

The Detail Editor has a powerful tool called sweep that can create
simple radially symmetric objects like a soda can or a candlestick
holder. However, the Forms editor can one-up sweep pretty easily.

Our goal is to create an object in the shape of a standard 12 ounce
soda can with all the details like the hollow on the bottom and the
little metal ridge on the top. The Forms Editor can create objects
like this with no trouble, and do it faster and much easier than using
the Detail Editor to spin a line outline of the can would take.

Enter the Form Editor, and make a new form (in the Object menu) with 4
slices and 20 points. A can at first approximation is just a cylinder.
We need many points around the radius to get a nice smooth circle
cross-section, but only a few slices to define the rectangular
vertical cross-section. For this example, we'll never muck with the
20-point circle cross section.

The cylinder is obviously radially symmetric, so we will probably want
to turn on 90-degree symmetry from the symmetry pull-down menu.  The
points that you manipulate in the front and right views will now move
their corresponding siblings, keeping the object radially symmetric.

To make a quick and dirty cylinder, move each point in the vertical
cross sections so that they are on the same Z line- they should stack
vertically on top of each other. I like manipulating the right hand
cross section in the Front view. Remember, the symmetry mode will move
the other three points for you. You can use the perspective view to
see what effect you're having on the form.  You might look at the
screen-grab called can_one to see how the first simple model should
look.  Again, these screen-grabs have to be downloaded from the FTP
site hubcap.clemson.edu.

What do we get? Well, our horizontal cross section is unchanged, its
still a nice circle. We don't want to muck with it. Our horizontal
cross section is a nice straight vertical line. If you think about it,
this should give us an object in the form of a tube. If you look at
your perspective view and don't see a tube, something is wrong. Look
at the can_one picture again to see what the problem is.

There are two problems with this tube. First, the sides are a bit
wavy, since each point was moved manually and they might not be
exactly on the same vertical line. Second, if we really want to make a
Coke can, we should at least get the proportions and scale right so we
don't have to squash and stretch things later to get it to look
reasonable.

To fix the wavy line problem, we just use "lock" mode from the
select menu. Remember, this will make any point we move jump to grid
intersections, so if we move the points around by the same Z line
they'll all line up on the same grid line.

We should also figure out how to get the right can proportions. If you
get out a ruler, you'll find a standard Coke can is 12.2 cm tall and
the main body is 3.25 cm in radius. It is difficult to accurately
change the radius of our form, but we can make every other measurement
use the default radius of 100 Imagine Units as a reference. Hence,
there are 3.25 cm in 100 Imagine Units, so the can should be 375 units
high.  If we change the grid spacing to 25, our can should be fifteen
grids high.  It is easy to automatically set the height of our object,
because the points will leap to the right position when we move them
to the correct (coarse) point. You might want to turn on "coordinate"
mode from the display menu to help identify where you are moving your
points.

It might occur to you that we also don't want a tube, we want a solid
cylinder, with ends. This is easy to make, we'll just take the top
cross section point and move it to the Z axis to enclose the top and
move the bottom point to the Z axis to enclose the bottom. This gives
us the rectangular cross-section we need to form a cylinder.

We'll make our can so that the axis is at the very bottom, at 0, 0, 0,
and the can rises to a height of 375 in the Z direction.

To actually change our rough tube to this properly proportioned, capped
cylinder, set the grid size to 25, turn on lock, and move the top
right point in the FRONT view to the 0, 0, 375 grid intersection. The
other views should show the corresponding points moving up as well.
Move the second point to form the outside top edge of the can, to 100,
0, 375. The third point forms the side, at 100, 0, 0, and the last
point will define the bottom, and should go to 0, 0, 0.

Your can should look like the picture can_two.

Ok, this DOES indeed look like a nice cylinder. So how do we get the
nice details like the top rim, and the dent on the bottom, and the
narrower "lip ridge" just below the top rim?  I said that it was easy
to add detail once you had a basic, crude form. Let's make the bottom
dent of the can.  Turn _off_ lock, so that we can move the points
freely to whatever location we want. We want to add come points to the
vertical cross sections so we have more control over the shape of the
can.

Select 'Add' from the mode menu. Now, whenever you click on a point, a
new point will appear at the midpoint of the line below it. We want to
add a point to the very bottom line segment (Which is currently the
horizontal line making the bottom of the can).  Just click on the
bottom outer point and a new point should appear on the bottom
horizontal line. Enter 'Edit' mode from the mode menu, and you'll find
this new point is just as easy to manipulate as the originals.

To form the bottom dent, we want to move the very last point on our Z
centerline UP to make a cavity. The point should be moved about a third
of a cm, or 10 units. You might want to turn on 'coordinates' from the
display menu to help measure the distance. Once you move the point up,
you'll see the dent in the perspective view if you move it so you can
view the bottom of the can. The new point that we added can be moved
up to make the bottom dent more bowl-like instead of a cone.

The trick to adding detail is to identify where you want to add a new
feature. If you want to add a new dent or bulge, a new point added at
the location you want can be moved in or out to make the feature.  If
you need to line things up, judicious use of changing the grid size
and using 'lock' will let you place the points accurately. Note that
the Forms editor LACKS the transformation requester that you find in the
Detail Editor, so you can't just type in coordinates for critical
points. You have to use grid size and lock to accurately place
objects.

OK, we know how to add details. Now how do you take the measurements
off of the can? There are a few ways- you could judge by eye, you
could take a ruler and measure everything, or you can try sneaky
tricks. If you fake it by eye, your model is obviously going to be
somewhat inaccurate, even if you use a can sitting right next to you as
a model. Measuring distances works quite well, though. I used a finely
measured rule and a sheet of graph paper to transcribe the shape of all
the ridges and bumps. Inputting these coordinates to Imagine involves
using the Coordinates display and matching points.

However, there is a quick and dirty trick you can use, though this
probably isn't applicable to most objects you model. Zoom the front
view so that it takes up the whole screen. Center your can in your
display by using the "set center" command in the Display menu and
clicking at the center of your object. Now, zoom in or out until the
size of the outline on your monitor approximates the real size of a
Coke can. Take a real can, and press it against your monitor, then
eye it. Use the radius as the determining factor, not the height.
Now repeatedly use the "set zoom" command from the display menu and
muck with the zoom to get the screen can size as close as you can to
the real can size when you press it against the monitor. On my 1950
monitor a zoom of 1.05 worked well, but it will vary from monitor to
monitor.

Once you match sizes, you can actually press the can against the screen
with one hand, and move points to match the can outline with the
other. [You'll look like a fool if anyone else is around, too!]
However silly this seems, I found it the easiest way to input the
shape of the can. When I sat with a ruler and some graph paper, my
paper diagram turned out to be less accurate as the screen method and
took much more time.

A rehash on adding the fine details: You have a rough outline. To
refine it, just pick the area you want to refine, add a new point on
that line, and drag it where you want it. I found that getting a highly
accurate cross-section (using 17 points) took less than 3 minutes with
the admittedly stupid screen trick. Using a ruler I spent 10 minutes
measuring and converting before I even moved the mouse.

When you're done, you should have an outline similar to mine, which is
shown in the picture can_three.

Take a look at your object in the perspective mode with the window zoomed
to full screen, and solid display mode on. Rotate the view up and down.
Nice, huh?

What about the top hole, and the tab? The tab is easy to add in the
Detail Editor, by extruding a flat outline. If you expected to make it
as an integral part of the can form, I'm sorry to say you were
expecting a bit much. The Form Editor likes to make single-piece
objects, and you can see how the tab is really a separate part of the
can "form." This doesn't prevent you from making a separate tab object
and sticking it on, and this is exactly what I did.

The hole, on the other hand, is pretty easy to include using the Form
Editor! If the hole is facing towards us as if we were going to take a
drink, the hole is obviously non-radially symmetric, and it is not
front-back symmetric. It IS left-right symmetric. Turn the symmetry
from the radial '90-degree' to 'right'.  Now, in the FRONT view, move
the top point (that is now on the Z axis) straight OUT about a third
of the way to the outer radius.  This is the WIDTH of the hole on top.

In the RIGHT view, move the left-top point (which is the front-top on
the can) about 90% of the way to the can rim. Leave the right-top
point where it is. The finished can form can be seen in picture
can_four.

See what we've done? Moving the points away from the center made a
hole. We made the front-to-back cross section asymmetric to one side,
so the hole location is moved. Look in the perspective view. Play
around with moving the hole around and turning symmetry on and off.

Why did this make the asymmetric hole? Remember how the form is
generated? Each cross-section is interpolated from the 4 defined cross
sections. The front cross section blends to the right, which then
blends to the back, then to the left, then back to the front. This is
very hard to describe, but play with the points and you'll see the
kind of control you have.

Note that the hole is an oval, which is not quite true for a can. The
Forms editor really won't let you do much more unless you want to
start mucking with radius modulation, but that's for the next example.

This completed can object can object can be loaded into the Detail
editor, at which point it becomes a normal object. You can move
individual points, apply brush maps, attributes, textures, and
manipulate it in any way you would a normal object. After manipulation
in the Detail Editor, the objects are generally not reloadable back
into the to the Forms editor. Using the Detail editor, you might make
and attach the can tab, or move individual points on the top hole to
make the ellipse to match a real can's hole more accurately.

A final rendered view of a can generated using this tutorial can be
seen in the HAM image 'Craftsman', where you can see two separate
versions of the can. The carved wood Coke logo was an experiment that
turned out well. The Coke logo itself was made with wire cutters, a real
can, Digiview, and an hour's touchup in DPaint III.

The can could have also been generated in the Detail editor by using
the powerful "Sweep" mold function. However, sweep certainly does not
provide the interactive updates that the Forms Editor does, and can
only make completely symmetric objects. The next examples will show
how much more powerful the Form Editor is when it makes very
non-lathed objects.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
                     Building a Water Splash
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Think of a ball dropping into a pool, and how a corona of water spurts
out around it. The splash is vaguely symmetric, and is certainly not a
group of primitive cylinders and tori merged together.

Building a splash like this using the Forms Editor is obscenely easy,
much easier than the Coke can!  It is even simple to animate the
splash!

If we want to make a crude splash model, we should first envision what
a cross section of such a splash would look like. The picture
splash_one is a 10 second DPaint line drawing of how I see water would
splash up and away at the peak of the splash. The center is disturbed
but mostly flat, and there is a steep "wall" of water at at certain
radius pointing out and up. It curls a bit at the top, with a bulge at
the peak, and slopes back IN and down. Outside the wall the water is
less disturbed. The wall is the 'shock wave' and is expanding (and
falling) with time.

It is very, very easy to make a primitive version of this in the forms
editor. We pretty obviously want our main axis that our slices are
centered around to be vertical. Start a new form, with 30 points and
10 slices, which should give us enough detail to rough something out.

Initially, we'll want to make the splash symmetric. Later, we can add
asymmetric details, but for now we want the coarse primitive to be
radially symmetric, since it will define the basic structure of the
form. Use the '90-degree' mode in the Symmetry menu.

The initial spherical horizontal cross section is completely useless
for our purposes.  Pick a height at which you want to base the splash
(the bottom point of the cross section is a logical choice) and when
you're building the splash, imagine that it is sitting on top of this
water. It will give us a good reference point.

Pull the top point of the cross section way out and down to the water
level. Keep the bottom point in at the center, and also at the water
level. The inbetween points should be moved into a crude outline of
the sloping water wall that we envisioned. My initial model is shown in
the picture splash_two. It took about a minute to build.

Look at the perspective view. A bit bland, but it is certainly on the
right track. Add a few points to the cross section at the top of the
water wave to give it a more complex, bulging appearance. You might
want to add some points near the base, especially on the inside, and
make the water near the wave a bit more ragged.

Now what? Our coarse form was trivial to make, but is far to
artificial. Let's jazz it up! Turn OFF symmetry, and muck around with
ALL FOUR cross sections. You can increase the height of the wave in
one, make the water a little rougher in another, make the peak on one
a bit more curved... give them character. DON'T make huge changes like
adding a second wave (you're welcome to try!)  but certainly make them
a bit different from each other. Think of adding a 25% noise level.
You might keep an eye on the perspective view, as well- it will show
you how the Forms Editor copes with blending these different shapes
together.

Now what? A little more variation? There's no reason the splash has to
be a perfect circle, or even an oval, is there? Of course not. The TOP
display shows what the HORIZONTAL cross section of our splash looks
like. Right now it's a nice circle. Now, our splash really should be
pretty circular when looked from above, but not perfectly... Go ahead
and muck with the shape, and again, watch the perspective view to see
what happens. You might want to leave SOLID mode on, especially with a
fast machine, since the wireframe of such a non-structured object is
often very confusing.

You can move the radial points any way you like. I suggest that you
only move them generally in and out, or the splash will get somewhat
lopsided. Also, avoid having sharp spikes. You can see how easy it is
to make our splash look like the Statue of Liberty's crown. 2 or 3
point bulges look very nice, major details formed with just 1 point are
sharp and look like knives. Not very appropriate for a soft water splash!

My final splash is shown in the picture splash_three. A
rendered version with three different splashes is called Ocean_Sunset.
Ocean_Sunset is actually a still from the current version an anim I'm
working on.  It has the dolphins jumping around, the water moving with
wind-driven waves, and eventually will have a ship slowly steaming
along with a nice wake and smoke. The animation of the splashes
still need a lot of tweeking, but it's getting better. This is still a
work in progress, but it looks nice even now.

What about animation? I said it was easy to animate, but how?  Well,
let's think of what the animation SHOULD look like, then figure how to
implement it. How does a splash evolve? The big wall of water starts
at the center of the circle and moves outward at a pretty constant
speed. It grows in height, curls over, and crashes down as is
progresses. If we make maybe 4 or 5 splashes, one for each stage of
the splashes growth, we can just move from one to the other. How?
Morph! Morph is easy to forget when you're dealing with complex
objects like splashes. Since morph requires its objects to have the
same structure, different complex objects often won't work with each
other.  However, if we use the same basic starting form for each of
the splashes (same # points and slices) we can have Imagine smoothly
interpolate from one form to the next.

Considering the fact that creating the splash took maybe 5 minutes,
you can see that making an entire animated splash is a 15 minute task.
You don't even have to make new splashes, just modify old ones! When
animated, you might add frills like separate objects for flying water
droplets, and have them follow parabolic arcs.  The Form Editor won't
let you make detached objects like that, so you'll have to make them
as separate objects that fly out, as opposed to pinch off and fly
away... You might also use two different splash forms superimposed to
give the splash a more complex character. The splash we built is still
a bit plain.

This example should impress how easy it is to make complex shapes with
an amazing amount of speed and control. Asteroid-maker, indeed!


---------------------------------------------------------------------
                     A Complex Boat Hull
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Making a boat hull might not seem very easy. If we want to use the
Form editor, shouldn't there be some sort of near-radial symmetry? It
turns out that you can really push the Forms Editor around in ways
Impulse hoped we'd discover.

A boat hull is a pretty simple object, right? Well, sorta. If you
wanted to build one in the Detail editor, you'd make an outline the
shape of an iron (as in for pressing clothes), then you'd extrude it
and use slice to make the bottom.

Well, this would work, but it's a pretty cheesy boat hull, no matter
how good your iron outline was. Even if you were a good modeler, made
a series of outlines and used skin to blend them, you are going to get a
hull that is boxy as opposed to a nice graceful curve.

Think of a big ocean-going vessel, not a cheeseball rowboat. The prow
is sharp, to cut into the water, and it angles down and back. The body
of the hull is fairly straight, and the stern rounds off smoothly with
a flat face as opposed to the prow's sharp point. At no point,
however, does the hull look like it was constructed of different
sections. To reduce drag, the shape smoothly changes both from the top
view (a teardrop with a squashed bottom?) and the side view. It has
one axis of symmetry (left/right).

How could we ever model this in the Detail Editor? Not easily, and
certainly not in one piece.

Well, fine. But how could we ever model this in the Forms Editor,
either? It certainly is not very obvious.

A big hint of how we would design a form for the hull lies in where
we place the center, the radial point, of our cross sections. We also
have to decide whether the slices should be coming out horizontally
(like the axis was a vertical mast) or at right angles. The choice is not
obvious.

If the axis is horizontal, then the radial sections would tend to
form a dome over the hull. If you made the radii of the
overhead portion negative (There is no problem doing this!)
we could just make a double-thickness of hull. This is messy, but
workable.

The second option is to use a vertical axis, which gives us the
benefit of a simpler object since there is no "dome" to add extra
needless points.  We want to make a new form object with an XY cross
section. Select 3 slices and 7 points and we'll make a very simple
version of the hull and work from there.

The question is where to but the center of our (vertical) axis. There
are three places on the hull where there is a sudden change in
cross-section -- the bow, and the two stern corners. If we want to
make these changes fairly sudden, we probably want to define each one
of them as one of our 4 cross sections. The interpolated cross
sections by definition are interpolated, so there's no major change in
shape. Thus, we want the bow to be in line with one of the four cross
sections, as well as in line with the two stern corners. This makes
our choice easy- the only place we can do this is the very back of the
boat, along the (port-starboard) centerline.

Now that we've decided where to put the axis, how do we want to define
the cross sections? Well, we want something that is left-right
symmetric, and NOT front-back symmetric, so we should turn on
left-right symmetry.

We want to change the default nearly-closed spherical cross section to
something more resembling an open gravy dish. Move the very top point(s)
way out and down some. The front cross section point (the left one in
the Right view) should be moved the most. The back cross section point
should be moved down, but not out very much. Remember that the stern is
very close to the axis, and does not have much detail.

The Front view should look somewhat like a big "U", and the Right view
should look like a sideways stretched "U" with one end (the bow) sloping
back and the other pretty vertical.

The horizontal cross section (top view) should look (reasonably) like
a boat viewed from above. The front should be pointed, the back should
be fairly blunt, but rounding off to the sides.

Describing the shape of these forms is harder than describing a Coke
can. Look at the picture hull_one to see what my crude shape looks like.

You can see in the perspective view that this basic form has a little
hull-like character. It is sharp in front, and has a blunt rear. You can
add extra points to each of the views to make a smoother form with
more details. My final boat hull is shown in picture hull_two. To get an
idea of how complex the real object is, there is a picture of the same
hull shown in the detail editor in picture hull_three.

-----------

The last example is much shorter than the rest, because there is
little more to say about the Forms Editor. What is does is very
complex, but there are few sneaky tricks once you learn how to control
the shape of your objects. The best way to become proficient with the
forms editor is to practice! I challenge you to build a banana.  Or a
light bulb WITH threads! [It's quite possible, though annoying]. How
about a good pencil object with six sides?

This wraps up the tutorial on using the Forms Editor. Sometime in the
next month or so I'll be writing a similar (though probably even
longer!)  tutorial on the using the Detail Editor and another on the
general process of object design and creation.


-Steve Worley   5/28/91


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Worley                                       [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



Because I was erked when my brush and texture tutorials were posted on
Compuserve sans credit, I include the following:

The text contained within this document as well as the associated
computer files are (C) Copyright 1991 by Steven P. Worley.
They be distributed freely under the following conditions: 1) The entire
text, including this copyright notice, is kept entire and 2) Steven Worley
is duly credited as being the author. The author reserves all other rights
to this text.

##

Subject: Rooms with views
Date: Fri, 24 May 91 17:39:33 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm)

rutgers!athena.mit.edu!spworley writes:

> Hey, I LOVE the room idea. I have a cheese-ball room myself that
> can be spiffed up.

Sounds good to me.

>  Anyone want to make/find a floor plan? Do we want to make a LOT of
> living rooms and offices, or do we want to accurately show kitchens
> and bathrooms, and have a "real" house? This sounds like a lot of
> fun, and everyone can help if they like.

I think contacting an Archetect and converting some CAD data would be
good.

I want the underground parts of the building.  I want to do some
castle-like stuff complete with burning torches and such...

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878

##

Subject: Re: FTP of public objects
Date: Sat, 25 May 91 19:26:48 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

[e-mail] (Terry Clayton) writes
>
> I just recently got on this mailing list and was interested in
> the FTP location of the publicly available Imagine objects, etc.
>
> reorganized (good job by the way) I have not been able to find
> them.  I keep seeing a mention of "hubcap" but don't know what
> that means.
>

I'll take this one, since Udo was kind enough to give me hubcap's address
last week:

hubcap.clemson.edu   --  130.127.8.1    /pub/amiga

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

##

Subject: Me and Imagine:  The Official Update!
Date: 30 May 91 09:23:00 EST
From: "SYSTEM MANAGER" <[e-mail]>

Greetings 3ders!

First off, I want to thank Steve Worley for the effort he put into
the Forms Editor tutorial.  These tutorials are simply wonderful.
I am looking forward to working with this tutorial over the weekend!
Of course a Detail Editor tutorial would be wonderful.  (Grin)
Mostly what I am interested in doing with the Detail Editor is creation
of what I call abitrary objects.  Meaning objects that can't be created
by spinning them. :-)

I also want to thank Steve for including me in the "Introduction to
the Imagine Mailing List", certainly a high honor.  :-)

I have been reading the rooms idea with great interest.  I fear that
my skills will not be adequent for the project.  However, I am willing
to give it a try!  I would like to have the computer room!  Nobody has
asked for that that >I< know of!  Imagine a house without a computer
room!?  Second thought, don't, it is too frightening!

I recently purchased 'Imagine:  The Possibilities', and overall I
like it very much.  It certainly is better than the guided tour!
However, I don't give it a giant thumbs up.  Why?  Well this tape
just barely gets into the detail editor.  Every object that was
created was a 'spun' type of thing.  I want to see something
complicated put together!  In fact, it would even have been good
if the tutorials in the imagine tutorial manual were demonstrated.

Yes, it is a better tape, but still not what I am looking for.

I also purchased the Imagine Companion.  This is a pretty decent
attempt at documentation for Imagine.  It of course is also lacking
an in-depth tutorial on the detail editor.  Perhaps it is me?  But
I don't find the Detail Editor (I have given up on the Forms Editor,
until I saw the tutorial from Steve) friendly.  I also do not like
authors of books (or editorials for that matter) to take pot-shots
at companies.  The Preface in the Imagine Companion should be ripped
out immediately. :-)

I did make some headway.  I found out how skin works, and I believe
that I can use this to make a lot of wonderful things, including the
bottom half of the enterprise.  I still wonder if everyone uses skin
to make everything.  :-)  I think I may have a crutch with the skin
function!

Well enough rambling for now.  Thank you all for making this the
most enjoyable mailing list, even greater than I first Imagined.

Ok. I apologize for the puns!  :-)

 -mark=

 +--------+   ==================================================
 | \/     |   Mark D. Manes   "The Most lopsided deal since ..."
 | /\  \/ |   [e-mail]
 |     /  |   [phone]    "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA"
 +--------+   ==================================================
 "I protest Captain!  I am not a merry man!" - Lt. Worf

##

Subject: Tutorial Videos
Date: Thu, 30 May 91 10:59:16 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Danny Griffin)

Greetings all!

I am trying to find the best instructional videotapes.  I know there
are several Imagine tapes out, and I'd appreciate any feedback on
which one(s) are good and which to stay away from.

I'm also looking for those in other areas (DTP, paint) but since this
is the Imagine group... :)

Dan

##

Subject: Buddy System for Imagine...
Date: 16 Apr 91 09:35:00 EST
From: "SYSTEM MANAGER" <[e-mail]>

I just got purchased what I hope to be a excellent program.  I have not
had a chance to install it yet.  The program?  The Buddy System for
Imagine.  If you are not familiar with "The Buddy System" family of
products, then you may want to become familiar.  I have seen this
product for Deluxe Paint III and it was excellent.  I am hoping that
the Imagine offering is just as good.

I will let you guys & gals know more after I get it installed.

I purchased Vista Pro.  It is a interesting program.  However, I guess
I need to work with it more.  I get images that look dark and actually
look better with the deinterlacer in my A3000 turned off.  I have not
yet created a good looking animation.  Has anyone used Vista Pro yet?
And if so, what did you think about it?

I want to thank all of you who have sent me mail on the 'not enough
puter' thread.  I intend to work with Imagine again this weekend and
attempt to create something very nice.  I am going to try to build
a starship enterprise (the old one) object.

Now that I think about it.. why can't we all compile a set of objects
and place them on disks.  I would happily pay for a set of objects
for Imagine.  In my opinion, one of the greatest weakneses has is that
it does not come with any objects!   LightWave 3d comes with some
very nice objects, we ought to put these objects together.  Perhaps
I could undertake this task?

 -mark=

 +--------+   ==================================================
 | \/     |   Mark D. Manes   "Mr. AmigaVision,  The 32 bit guy"
 | /\  \/ |   [e-mail]
 |     /  |   [phone]    "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA"
 +--------+   ==================================================

##

Subject: ImConEd1.1 avail by ftp
Date: Sun, 5 May 1991 11:23:30 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

Getting tired of calling up that text editor and scrolling thru
your Imagine.config file looking for parameter you want to
change (like the edge level:)??

Well,I have uploaded a program/utility called "ImConEd"to ab20
that was specifically designed to allow fast and easy access to
your Imagine.config file. ImConEd has an efficient and attractive
interface.

* Numerical entries are made interactivly with sliding gadgets;
* Color entries are made interactivly with sliding RGB guns (you
  SEE the color);
* Quick save (works well in conjunction with Imagine's "reconfig"
  menu item.
* Can be started by a WB icon or from the CLI, Browser, MyMenu etc.
* Works on 1.3 and 2.0

The present version is ALPHA however it has been well tested and is
quite stable on WB1.3 and 2.0. A Function Key and Pset editor
are NOT included in this version but are well along at this time,
however because of ImConEd's usefullness in editing ALL but the
Fkeys and Pset's, I asked the author to release it as is. I will
upload the complete version when it's ready.

ImConEd1.1 is the copyright of Sheldon Arnst (Montreal,Canada) and
is freely distributable. Imconed11.lzh  can be found on:

    ab20.lharc.nasa.gov  in the directory:  incoming/amiga

I will redirect any questions,comments or problems you have with
ImConEd to the author.

--stephen

--
Stephen Menzies
Email: [e-mail]

##

Subject: New Detail commands
Date: Wed, 01 May 91 12:39:09 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Ed Chadez wanted to know what some of the new 1.1 Detail Editor
commands did.

Fracture will take any selected faces and split each into four new,
"fractured" faces by adding three new points, one on the bisector of
each line segment. Faces that share an edge with a fractured face will
split in two, so they keep the same edges in common. Fracture is
useful for increasing "face resolution" for better Phong shading,
coloring, and attribute assignment.

Split will take all of the selected points and "split" them apart from
an object to form a new object. Thus, you could sever the wing of a
plane to form a wing and a fusalage.  Previously, you'd have to use
slice, or delete the appropriate points on two copies of the object.
Any edges and faces connecting the selected, "split", points and the
non-selected points will be deleted. A new axis is created with the
same size, position, and orientation as the orignal axis.

Taut takes and makes a set of connected line segments line up in a
straight line. For example, if you "add lines", you'll get a string of
connected points in a row. If you "select points", select all of them
in order, then use "taut", they will string themselves out in a
straight line between the first selected point and the last. This
feature migght be useful in creating pointed paths, or making outlines
for skin or extrude.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Rick Rodriguez's videos
Date: Thu, 30 May 91 19:40:56 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Rick is sending me a copy of his first tape- a full review after I
see it!

He is now in the process of making the next video, on using Imagine
for animation. He wants to know if anyone would care to let him use
any of your (yes, YOUR!) anims (the 24 bit files, or a project he can
re-render). If so, e-mail me personally. He doesn't have direct net
access, so I'll US Mail him any contributions. 24-bit stills are all
right, but he's really looking for anims.

-Steve

PS- This is the 750th post to the list since it began!


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Brush wrap patterns..
Date: 31 May 91  0:01 -0500
From: "Jeff A. Bell" <[e-mail]>

I've been fiddling with a couple PD programs (such as Cloud) trying to get
a convincing 'marble' that can be used as a brush wrap, but I haven't had
all that much luck.  It always seems to look a little 'un-natural', no matter
what I do with the palette.  Does anyone know of any pics that have a marble
pattern that I could 'lift' and use for my own purposes?  Any other suggestions
with regards to generating a real-looking marble pattern?

I have a digitizer, but unfortunately, won't have access to a Camera for
another couple weeks :(.  I assume that this would be a great way to get the
effect I'm looking for, no?

Thanks in advance,

Jeff
--
[e-mail]

##

Subject: re:Me and Imagine: The Official Update!
Date: Thu, 30 May 91 09:06:21 PDT
From: Mark Davis <[e-mail]>

How about a review of 'Imagine: The possibilities' and
the Imagine Companion or at least a listing of its topics?  Any takers?

mark

p.s.

Steve,

I appreciate the time and effort you put into the 'forms editor'
tutorial.  I read it last night and, hopefully, will work through
it this weekend.  Thanks!

##

Subject: Forms Tutorial...
Date: Fri, 31 May 91 06:22 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Scott Busse)

Great stuff Steven! And I had totally ignored the forms editor up to this
point... If we were rich, we'd send money! :)
--
* Scott Busse email:           O    O   O_     _      ___ .....
* CIS 73040,2114              |||  /|\  /\   O/\_     /         O    )=|
* [e-mail]    l   | |   |\    / \   /\                _\
* [e-mail]                  Live Long and Animate... \

##

Subject: Markoya's Map Master
Date: Fri, 31 May 91 15:46:22 CDT
From: Wayne Haufler 283-4160 <[e-mail]>

Hello fellow Imagineers,

I am surprised no one on this Mailing List (that I have seen) has yet
mentioned Louis Markoya's latest product - "Map Master for Imagine".  I
just received a flyer on this (postmarked May 18) so, for those of you
who are not on his mailing list, I will quote the flyer here, except
for pricing info for now.  I hope I am not stepping on anybody's toes
doing this, but I am almost as excited about this as I was about his
"Surface Master" product, which is superb.  Thank you, Louis!

Again, this is not an advertisement, just posted FYI.

----------------------------------------------------------------
            Introducing
           Map Master for Imagine

Map Master for Imagine is a stunning collection of image mapping possibilities
which breaks new ground in 3D for the Amiga by offering professional results
with little or no learning curve.  Map Master gives you immediate access to
all the techniques available for image mapping within Imagine.  A menu driven
program uses arrays of objects to explore all the mapping possibilities,
giving immediate visual feedback of the chosen parameters.  You will also
find each setting listed in a comprehensive manual, along with a detailed
description of every Image Mapping technique.  Color, Filter, Reflection,
Altitude and every combination of techniques is displayed and discussed.
The 3 disk set includes 2 disks full of the breath taking, high resolution,
professionally scanned organic textures used in the program.  Objects and
.imp files are provided in the program disk which will enable you to recreate
teh Map Master screens on your own Amiga.  You will truly marvel at the
eye catching and beautiful mapping results at your command.

Map Master for Imagine ...

        Louis Markoya
        Computer Imagery
        49 Walnut Ave.
        Shelton, CT  06484

Map Master will ship approximately June 8, 1991.
----------------------------------------------------------------

===============================================================================
          ____  Wayne A. Haufler     ([e-mail])
\    /\    /\    /    McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company - Houston Div.
 \  /--\  /  \  /--      [Christian/SW Engineer/Amigan/Tenor/Violist/Single]
  \/    \/    \/____    "Exploring the Use of Computer Graphics and Animations"
        /                   "To Serve and Support Christian Endeavors"
       /
               !!CAUTION: SIGNATURE UNDER CONSTRUCTION!!
===============================================================================

##

Subject: Re:  Brush wrap patterns..
Date: Fri, 31 May 91 15:40:58 CDT
From: Wayne Haufler 283-4160 <[e-mail]>

Hello,

Jeff Bell <[e-mail]> writes:
> Does anyone know of any pics that have a marble
> pattern that I could 'lift' and use for my own purposes?  Any other
> suggestions with regards to generating a real-looking marble pattern?

I have bought, but not used yet, a collection of digitized Stone
Surfaces that includes marble, sandstone, and agragite by the good
people at MicroSearch here in Houston, Texas.  The format is IFF HAM
overscan.  This product is to be the first in a series called the
"Materials Texture Library" from MicroSearch and is priced at $39.95.
Not exactly Public Domain, but it is good quality.  Their phone number
is 713-486-5630 or 713-988-2818 and their BBS number is 713-486-5633.

This is not an advertisement, just FYI.


===============================================================================
          ____  Wayne A. Haufler     ([e-mail])
\    /\    /\    /    McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company - Houston Div.
 \  /--\  /  \  /--      [Christian/SW Engineer/Amigan/Tenor/Violist/Single]
  \/    \/    \/____    "Exploring the Use of Computer Graphics and Animations"
        /                   "To Serve and Support Christian Endeavors"
       /
               !!CAUTION: SIGNATURE UNDER CONSTRUCTION!!
===============================================================================

##

Subject: help with stars...
Date: Fri, 31 May 91 11:51:02 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Edward Chadez)

Can anyone explain how the 'star field' (globals-actor/stage editor) is
generated?

I made a 30 frame animation where the camera moved and the objects
remained steady.  The star background, however, did not seem to be
re-created properly in each frame.  I don't know if the results were
random or my understanding of how the star field is generated is in error.

I have had success where the camera tracks an object against a star
background--the stars seem to be repositioned properly during each frame.

Furthermore, if anyone knows of a good 'star field' generator which I could
create either frames or complete animations, that would be good to know,
too.  I know of 'Star Fields' from the people who make animfonts.  And, as
a bonus, I already own Distant Suns (from the people who make Vista!).

Any advice is appreciated!  Including pointers on using the star field to
produce the best results. :-)

Sincerely,
Edward Chadez

--
--//-------------------------------------------------------------------------
\X/ [e-mail]/Edward Chadez                  CARL Systems(303)861-5319
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: SpiralStairs Room Pic on HUBCAP
Date: Fri, 31 May 91 17:54:49 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

Hello! This is an announcement that I have deleted my old "Room.lzh" picture
file from hubcap and replaced with a new pic: a room with a spiral staircase
leading up to a 2nd story loft, a paisley couch, a homegrown plant, a track-
light system totalling 6 shadow-casting light sources, and a framed mandel-
brot painting on the wall. I also like the way the floor came out using the
brick procedural texture to create the long slats of a wood floor.

NOTICE: I have gotten several replies from people concerning their input to
the "ROOMS project". I'm keeping track of who wants to do what, but please
post your ideas to the IMAGINE mailing list so that everyone sees what's
going on, and to keep up the interest in the group project.

ALSO: My suugestion for a "modular, pre-fab" room that would be used for
everyone to work from has been retracted in favor of a floor-plan from which
each participant will choose a room to "inhabit". Let's get a floorplan
posted so we can!

P.S. Please send me a note if you take a look at the SpiralStairs pic, I'd
     appreciate feedback.

                                              AP.sig

##

Subject: Re: Me and Imagine:  The Official Update!
Date: Fri, 31 May 91 17:11:42 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

> I did make some headway.  I found out how skin works, and I believe
> that I can use this to make a lot of wonderful things, including the
> bottom half of the enterprise.  I still wonder if everyone uses skin
> to make everything.  :-)  I think I may have a crutch with the skin
> function!

    Skin is a wonderful tool!  Mess around with it, there are a lot of
    things you can do with Skin.

>
>  -mark=
>
>  +--------+   ==================================================
>  | \/     |   Mark D. Manes   "The Most lopsided deal since ..."
>  | /\  \/ |   [e-mail]
>  |     /  |   [phone]    "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA"
>  +--------+   ==================================================
>  "I protest Captain!  I am not a merry man!" - Lt. Worf

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

##

Subject: rooms
Date: Fri, 31 May 91 23:53:26 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Rob Borsari)

To date the following people have sent "yes to rooms"

[e-mail]
[e-mail]
Udo K Schuermann
Elmer Stobbe
Mark Davis
"Doug Bischoff"
Wayne Haufler 283

If you sent a message and don't see your name here resend.

8 people is too small (I think) to support dumping the anim to LD in 24bit.
It might be a tad expensive.  If anyone would like to buy a copy of the tape
but doesn't want to contribute time and effort send a message to
[e-mail] that is just a subject saying "I'll buy rooms"
This would help bring the cost per tape down and might make the 24bit
version of this possible.  people who want to contribute but haven't mailed a
"Yes to rooms" yet please do so.


 on a lighter note.   Does anyone have anything that they are willing to
trade for my guided missle cruser?  (planes, boats, spaceships) mail me.

-R-
[e-mail]   Rob Borsari   "Bourne to be Wild"

##

Subject: Re: rooms
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 91 08:42:52 -0500
From: Donald Richard Tillery Jr <[e-mail]>

I sent "yes to rooms" and volunteered to do a sort of basement gameroom.  I'm
working on it...any chance of getting more than a month, I'm real slow at this?

:-)

Rick Tillery ([e-mail])

##

Subject: Re: Brush wrap patterns..
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 91 14:12:38 PDT
From: [e-mail]


There is a new product out called "Texture City". I have seen no mention
of it here so I will post information from the flyer FYI. I have no
relationship with the people who put this out (although I have met them).
I received the information at the Toaster Users Group meeting in LA last
month. This wording is not mine, I have not seen the product, just a demo
video (which was very impressive). I am quoting from the flyer verbatim.

===========================================================================

            TEXTURE CITY

Texture city offers you the very best in True-Color 24-Bit imagery for
use in video, 3-D graphic design, color slides, and print production. All
images have been carefully selected and processed for correct orientation,
color balance, and file size. The Special Sampler Packs offered below
each include a selection of Marbles, Stones, Woods, Earth, Granites,
Metals, Textiles, Scenics and Special Effects. Specific catagory
packs will be available, in 24-Bit format only, by special request.

Texture City images are currently available in 24-Bit IFF, DCTV, and
HAM file formats. 24-Bit IFF are 736x480 and can be loaded directly
into the Video Toaster. DCTV files are also 736x480, HAM images are
368x480. Soon to be released formats include TARGA, TIFF and PCX for
PC-DOS and Macintosh platforms.

Mail to: Texture City, 3215 Overland Avenue #6167, Los Angeles, CA 90034.

For Inquires about images and uses please call:

Larry Rosen, LA Videograms [phone]
Steven Blaize, Creative Fire [phone]
Victor Osaka, Design Osaka [phone]

============================================================================

End of quoting verbaim. Now my words.

There is also a second page of the flyer listing over 400 textures, I'm
not particularly interested in typing them all in right now, especially since
this isn't my advertisement :-). I suggest you call the above numbers for
more info about that.

Obviously these are images to map onto objects, not texture information
for something like Imagine. But for anyone serious about 3-D texturing
you will soon find out (if you don't know already) that the textures
created by parameters like in Imagine are mere toys compared to the
realistic scenes you can create using high quality 24-bit images of
marble or stone or clouds or whatever. There is just no comparaison.
If you want to do even semi-professional work you have to use image
mapping.

It is my understanding that these people have a high resolution camera
and took a lot of time and care scanning in REAL surfaces. From the
videotape they showed, it was very impressive.

Now the bad news: The cost. Personally this really turned me off to
the product. I might pay this much if I knew exactly what I was getting
and had specific uses for the images, but a random sampling that I may
or may not use is just not worth it, in my opinion.

24-Bit Professional Pack #1 - 30 Images     $299.95
24-Bit Professional Sample #1 - 10 Images    $119.95
24-Bit Professional Sample #2 - 10 Images    $119.95
DCTV Sample #1 - 30 Images            $199.95
HAM Images #1 - 30 Images            $149.95

This flyer offers an introductory discount until June 15, 1991 on each
of the packages to varying degrees. I don't know if they will offer this
if you don't have the flyer, so I won't post the discounted prices.
Call them and ask.

One more important note: The 24-Bit IFF image disks are all distributed
using QuarterBack Version 4.1. That means that you have to have this
product and a hard drive to use these images.

=======================================================================
Sean Schur                        USENET: [e-mail]
Assistant Director Amiga/Media Lab        Compuserve: 70731,1102
Character Animation Department            Plink: OSS259
California Institute of the Arts
=======================================================================

##

Subject: help with stars...
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 91 18:29:47 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm)

rutgers!carl.org!echadez (Edward Chadez) writes:

> Can anyone explain how the 'star field' (globals-actor/stage editor) is
> generated?

Sorry, can't because I haven't used it.

> I made a 30 frame animation where the camera moved and the objects
> remained steady.  The star background, however, did not seem to be
> re-created properly in each frame.  I don't know if the results were
> random or my understanding of how the star field is generated is in error.

Hmm..sounds familiar.  I think there is probably a problem with how
Imagine deals with starfield generation.

> I have had success where the camera tracks an object against a star
> background--the stars seem to be repositioned properly during each frame.
>
> Furthermore, if anyone knows of a good 'star field' generator which I could
> create either frames or complete animations, that would be good to know,
> too.  I know of 'Star Fields' from the people who make animfonts.  And, as
> a bonus, I already own Distant Suns (from the people who make Vista!).

I suggest you just create some IFF images that are your starfields
and map them.  I would think this would be the most precise way of
controlling your starfield.

> Any advice is appreciated!  Including pointers on using the star field to
> produce the best results. :-)

You got my advice above. <grin>

> Sincerely,
> Edward Chadez

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878

##

Subject: Re: Brush wrap patterns..
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 91 10:46:13 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> Obviously these are images to map onto objects, not texture information
> for something like Imagine. But for anyone serious about 3-D texturing
> you will soon find out (if you don't know already) that the textures
> created by parameters like in Imagine are mere toys compared to the
> realistic scenes you can create using high quality 24-bit images of
> marble or stone or clouds or whatever. There is just no comparaison.
> If you want to do even semi-professional work you have to use image
> mapping.

Well with all this talk about textures and image maps, I thought I'd toss
out this little tidbit. I just finished an article for Amazing Computing
on LightWave and I made a brief mention of a book by Phil Brodatz called
"Textures". It contains 112 image plates of a variety of textures including
rattan, wire mesh, lizard skin, burlap, bricks, sand, wood, marble,
plastic bubles, pebbles, etc, etc. They are all black and white images
but they still can be used to modulate bumps, diffuse lighting, transparency,
etc or you could colorize them yourself if you really feel its necessary.
In fact, several of the images from Louis Markoya's Map Master are digitized
from this book and my understanding is that they are all 16 or 32 color
greymaps. I have uploaded the image I submitted to Amazing Computing for
the article to hubcap.clemson.edu for your perusal and can be found as:
/pub/amiga/incoming/IMAGINE/PICTURES/park.lzh. It uses grass, rattan,
and tree bark textures with diffuse lighting and bump image mapping. The
conversion to HAM was not the best but it still shows off the textures
(the 24bit version should be in the August issue of AC). Anyway, the book is
available from Dover Publications for a paltry $8.95, check it out.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: big file question
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 91 18:36:20 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

Hey, when I make an animation and it turns out to be something
like 1.5 megs in size, or bigger, what's a way to get it onto
3.5" floppies so that it "daisy-chains" across two or more disks?
I've used BRU to do this but I want to set up these disks so that
I could send them to someone and not have to worry about them
having BRU or any other program except the required anim-player.

This would also be helpful in putting large 24bit pics on disks.
ANY Leads or advice greatly appreciated!!

AP.sig

##

Subject: Re: big file question
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 91 09:57:52 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> Hey, when I make an animation and it turns out to be something
> like 1.5 megs in size, or bigger, what's a way to get it onto
> 3.5" floppies so that it "daisy-chains" across two or more disks?

Well the optimal solution is one of the compressing archivers like lhwarp
or zoom or whatever. But since you don't want your recipient to require
any special archiver programs, the standard Amiga commands 'split' and
'join' should do the job for you. I have not used either of these in ages
so you will have to blow the dust off your original Amiga manuals to
get the exact syntax (or type in the wrong syntax and hope the OS prompts
you with proper usage).
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: big file question
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 91 9:51:45 PDT
From: [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)

>
>
> Hey, when I make an animation and it turns out to be something
> like 1.5 megs in size, or bigger, what's a way to get it onto
> 3.5" floppies so that it "daisy-chains" across two or more disks?
> I've used BRU to do this but I want to set up these disks so that
> I could send them to someone and not have to worry about them
> having BRU or any other program except the required anim-player.
>
Well, first you need to generate your ANIM in multiple parts (but it will
still have to fit in the memory of the playing system eventually!).  Then,
use the Director to write a script to load and play the parts.  Unfortunately,
this means you need to buy a copy of the Director, but the person who plays
the ANIM will only need the PD program Projector (part of the Director
package) to view the ANIM.

> This would also be helpful in putting large 24bit pics on disks.
> ANY Leads or advice greatly appreciated!!
>
Actually, that is a separate problem.  If all you want to do is squeeze
data, use an archiver like lharc.  If you want to make an ANIM which spans
multiple floppies, see above.

> AP.sig
>
>

John T. Grieggs (Telos @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory)
4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, Ca. 91109 M/S 301-320T    [phone]
Uucp: {cit-vax,elroy,chas2}!jpl-devvax!grieggs
Arpa: ...jpl-devvax![e-mail]

##

Subject: Rodriguez video, Detail Tutorial
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 91 18:56:50 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Rick Rodriguez mailed me a copy of his first Imagine video- Thanks, Rick!
I'll write up a full review, but overall it rates a "pretty good" in
my opinion. I have *not* seen the other video that came out a few months ago.

My Detail tutorial is growing... It looks like it's gonna be pretty big. I'm
splitting it into two parts: An intro including viewing, manipulating objects,
modes, picking and selecting, grouping, and attributes, and "funky stuff"
containing the powerful tools like mold and slice. The intro is about 2/3
done, and is over 30K. Expect it in a week or so.

-Steve


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re:  help with stars...
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 91 19:46:37 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Matt Feifarek)

The best star generator that I know of is Dpaint...

Hires, grey scale palette...
Set the range to be the whole palette.
Turn on cycle draw.
SIze the airbrush REALLY big ( 500+)
click... instant star field.

Map this onto a ground object (with repeat if you want), and use it
like a ceiling.

The different grey levels give the impression of different star magnitudes
and sizes.

The only drawback to this is that there is no parallax, but there is VERY
little in real life, unless you are travelling at near-light velocity.

Hope this helps!

    Matt Feifarek

##

Subject: NFF to IMAGINE
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 91 20:05:25 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)

    Greetings everyone. I have been exploring the realms of 3D graphics
lately. I was wondering if there is already an NFF to TDDD or TTDDD converter
available via FTP. If there is, I would be interested in obtaining it instead
of writing my own.

    I just bought the Fundamentals of Interactive Computer graphics by
Foley and Van Dam. I was wondering if any of you 3D programmers recommend
this book or another. It looks pretty and has several exercises for each of
the tutorials. Also, could someone explain SPHIGGS to me? What platform is
this written for? If it includes C source, has anyone ported it to the Amiga?
I don't really want to waste Inernet bandwidth by getting things I am going
to delete.

    I am collecting NFF objects currently. NFF is an ASCII format, but I
am not sure which programs use it. I have an Enterprise, teapot, Amiga, etc.

    Also, how about an Adobe Type I font converter to TDDD or TTDDD. It
would be great to be able to access the entire Linotype library of fonts for
use with Imagine.

    That's it for now. Thanks.

Juan
[e-mail]